Lightbringers: Illuminating the Deeper Meaning of the Crime-solving Devil TV Show

Lucifer 311 + 312 "A City of Angels?" & "All About Her"

• Tracie Guy-Decker & Emily Guy Birken • Episode 22

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“City of Angels?” and “All About Her” have us thinking a lot about tv writers’ short cuts and senses of humor. The first, a pre-season-1 prequel, provides some believable and some less-believable canon origins for show staples. On the plus side, we get some mostly-naked scenes of Amenadiel (DB Woodside), but there is no interaction between Lucifer and Chloe at all. Bonus: Emily recounts that time she made friends with a Playboy playmate. 

In discussing “All About Her,” Tracie follows a rabbit hole about the nature and historical interpretation of the mark of Cain, and the sisters lament the difficulty of finding good minions these days. We close our conversation with some darn fine overthinking about Lucifer’s power to “turn things on.”

Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music. 

Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.

Speaker 1:

Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.

Speaker 2:

Hey there, fam. I am here with my sister, Emily Guy-Burken, and she does not use a hyphen. I am here with my sister, Tracy Guy Decker, and yes, she does use a hyphen and together we are lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show.

Speaker 3:

And yes, we are overthinking it so much.

Speaker 2:

So today we are going to be talking about 311 and 312, city of Angels and all about her. So we'll do them in order, although I honestly have more to say about all about her. I think City of Angels felt like, to be honest, it sort of felt like the writer's room was like telling each other jokes yeah, you know like it didn't really advance the story and in fact for me it created questions and continuity issues that I didn't have prior to watching it. For instance, I mean the biggest one is that in City of Angels, men of Deal needs Lucifer's help and they strike a deal with an IOU which Lucifer calls in at the end of the episode to say you got to leave me alone and let me like chill with my vacation here in LA. And that actually made me, because you know we ever think it.

Speaker 2:

After I watched City of Angels I went back and watched the first few minutes of the pilot again, which in rewatch, ellis's natural accent really stands out after I've been watching like the first, anyway, but that it's absent because when they wrote the pilot that wasn't the case and it's just. It just doesn't. It doesn't jive, doesn't have any other.

Speaker 2:

Now, on the other hand, I mean they were sort of closing a continuity issue in so far as Lucifer's meant to have been in LA for five years before the action of the pilot takes place, and so why wasn't a Men of Deal, like you know, knock on his door for those first five years? So in that sense they closed a continuity loop. But to me the interaction between the two brothers, from the pilot to this one, it like it, just it doesn't hang together to me chronologically. I mean it did explore some interesting dynamics with the cage fight, like the literal cage fight between the two brothers, but it just like ultimately, I could have done without this episode.

Speaker 3:

I actually found because it's not one that I revisit often I found I enjoyed it a lot more than I anticipated. Now, some of that was I actually. I appreciated the continuity fixing because then it makes more sense why there is a sense of impotence to what a Men of Deal can do, because, like as God's great mercy and mercy he can bodily pick Lucifer up and take him back to hell. So the fact that you know there's this blank check that he said all right, fine, and so all he can do is ask.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 2:

So, then the, but then the threats from the pilot. Like there, I don't know if you remember, but in the pilot, when we first meet him in a deal, he threatens Lucifer with, like the like scary wingtips at Lucifer's throat, mm hmm. While time is paused or slowed down, mm hmm. And Lucifer's like go ahead, you think got. You think dad's angry now, you know, go ahead and hurt me and see what else, see how angry he is then which, which, knowing the chronology of when it was written, it all makes sense, but in terms of your that specific thing, like I don't know, it's still, it just didn't quite work for me. I didn't buy it, mm hmm. But I interrupt you, so carry on.

Speaker 3:

Oh, no, no, that's OK, so that that actually I like I can. I can even see that again If we're overthinking. I can even see that as, like a men, a deal is losing patience. He'd assumed that his factless younger brother is going to, you know, get bored and go home and wander home.

Speaker 3:

And it's been five years and he hasn't. And so, like, all he's got is physical threats, like all he's got. And and Lucifer's calling his bluff. And then there's also, like, the question of like, what would happen to a man a deal if he broke promise with Lucifer? Like, is there any real consequence to that? So there is, there's still that undercurrent of like, because Lucifer is like shaken up after that. Yes, with a men a deal. So there is still that that potential. Like gosh, I don't even know. Like I know what happens if a human breaks a promise to me. But, right, you know, is dad going to get involved? Is this, you know, is right, it's only his honor that is keeping him to this promise.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So that worked for me. That worked for me. What was a little odd was at the very end of City of Angels, when Lucifer says, nope, you're not taking me back to hell, this is my new home, I'm going to stay here. And a men, a deal kind of like pats him on the shoulder, like he says something to him, like I appreciate the sentiment about not wanting to please God anymore, and that seemed like a season three, a men, a deal response as opposed to a preseason one. Yeah, there was that. There was a little more like brotherliness there. Yep, then. Yep, I agree.

Speaker 2:

Then then actually with the men, a deal Actually was called for in the pre pilot. Yeah, it's interesting too. They did echo that language. When Lucifer sort of has that realization, I'm still trying to please him and I don't want to play his game anymore. That language is from the pilot. That's what Lucifer says to a men a deal to say to God. Tell him I'm not going to play his game anymore. I don't remember the precise language it's been a couple of days now since I watched it but it was the same language from the pilot as from that, so they were definitely aware of.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like they rewatched the pilot before they wrote it.

Speaker 2:

They clearly did, clearly did.

Speaker 3:

So I have to say the thing, the continuity thing that bothers me is that Lux was a place where they were doing cage fighting. It doesn't really, just does not work for me.

Speaker 2:

I'm not okay with it After we learned about that. It was like this you know, like from prohibition, you know like Al Capone, whatever, whatever the historic thing was that allowed Chloe to have it put on the National Registrar, the local register of historic places?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was just like what? None of this, and like I guess, because there's like the balconies and stuff where the go-go dancers stand, like that does make it good for cage fighting audiences, and so I don't know, it was just like this doesn't make sense for you, that's fair H fighting is in a basement.

Speaker 2:

The thing that didn't work, the other thing, that one of the many things that didn't work for me was Chloe and Chloe and Charlotte.

Speaker 3:

No, chloe, and.

Speaker 2:

Charlotte yeah, yeah, but Charlotte's wig was terrible, it was terrible.

Speaker 3:

Why it was so bad. All they had to do was like braid her hair to make it look different. It's like why did?

Speaker 2:

they give her such a terrible wig. It was a bad wig, yeah, it was a bad wig, and but I also, like we are led to believe that Charlotte is, you know, unknown to Chloe and like Chloe would have remembered she would have mentioned that encounter when she was still in uniform. I just, I didn't buy it. I also didn't buy that Charlotte would have been sloppy enough to mention the two rival families. Yeah, she's supposed to be a shark.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, total shark. Yeah, yeah that that didn't work.

Speaker 2:

That felt that's. I think that was the moment when I was like, okay, they're just telling each other jokes right now. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Well, the other thing was like we did not need a Canon introduction of Taco Tuesday, Like we did not need that to be something that was created. Like you know, that is a thing that people do. Trixie in 2011 would have been two, and so you don't say, like hell, we'll do a thing. It'll be Taco Tuesday. Trixie will love it about your two year old yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know, like and the two year old's not necessarily going to realize that I don't know, I don't know. So, like that was, like I, like, we don't, we don't need to do that, like there's other stuff they could have established, but Taco Tuesday, that's a thing that everybody does Like, we'll call it Taco Tuesday, like it was a thing in 2011. Yeah, it's been a thing for a while.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, that that bothered me, the also the idea that I mean, I guess it makes sense that Lucifer hadn't had a piano in hell. You know, I just hadn't occurred to me. That's, that's not a bad thing. One or the other is just was like, hmm, hadn't occurred to me, but you know, we had work to do in hell, I guess. So, no, no, no, rest for the wicked, which he is not, nor is he evil.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that that was actually something that I thought was well done. To have a menadil sort of offhandedly refer to Lucifer as evil and then have that like really trigger Lucifer into this really childish action. Yeah, but that that actually I believed.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that that definitely fit. And actually the the image of and I don't know, like just the difference in a menadil and Lucifer, who was like he looked skinny, and I'm sure some of that had to do with like camera trickery or and stuff like that and they did that intentionally, but some of it's just the difference in how they're they're built, yeah, but like, yeah, there was no way he was going to win against a menadil if a menadil didn't throw the fight basically.

Speaker 3:

And it was interesting like that he was playing on a menadil's pride and it took him a while to realize that he's he's ruled by his pride rather than by what he actually needs to get done. So one other thing the killer. When they finally find him and they're questioning him, he's like I want my necklace back and he's like I'll give you another necklace and then he's in the safe. It's in the safe. I'm like why, yeah, yeah, like like if you knew where it was, why don't you?

Speaker 2:

And he's terrified of these people. Yeah, I mean, possibly he experienced the power that it conveyed, but like, I don't think our writers knew that it had that power. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, but yeah, that that was a weird sort of like dialogue moment. Like, yeah, I'll buy you another necklace. It's in my safe.

Speaker 3:

Like, yeah, yeah, that was. That was very weird. I enjoyed City of Angels a lot more than I thought I would, because I generally skip it because it's a it's a pattern interrupter in a way that like and it's got some lovely moments in it that I that I enjoy, but like I mostly want to see the interplay between Chloe and Lucifer and there is none.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so, but there was quite a bit that I appreciated, including Lucifer proving himself to be pretty good detective throughout, which, I mean, gives this ridiculous concept some shape and meaning, you know. And as for the telling, telling himself jokes like the amenity of going speaking to Chloe.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and drawing the jack-o-lantern.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and then the him getting stuck in a porno yeah, yeah, which is just like how can we make this happen? Because it sounds hilarious? Yeah, for sure it really was. Yeah, I, you know, I did want to talk about Misty Canyon's who Lucifer recognized.

Speaker 2:

I think I saw Latage yes.

Speaker 3:

So what I found kind of cool was well, for one thing, I love that Lucifer was like fanboying, like oh my God, I know that person, I know that person. And then the way in which he interacted with her. I was thinking about you probably heard my story of this when I met the Playboy Playmate when I was like 20 or 21. Do you remember that vaguely? So I went out with our childhood friend, manny to oh, I had turned 21. So I was like so I could get carded. And so we went to this place.

Speaker 3:

Manny wasn't 21 yet and talked his way in, which freaked me the hell out. But we get in there and we didn't realize this is this, this club. There was a Playboy Playmate there who was doing like promotion and she was signing Playboys and you had to pay I don't even know how much to get assigned Playboy from her. And I was like I want to meet the Playmate, like I'm like really curious. And so, manny, because he could talk his way into anything, he's like I'll get you to meet her. And so basically he spoke to someone so my friend wants to meet and I don't remember her name. And so I went and I was like hi, I just, you know, like interested to see what you're doing here and I told her like how growing up my dad kept Playboys on the back of the toilet Underneath the National Geographic, underneath the Smithsonian Smithsonian magazine.

Speaker 3:

And so she was telling me like, oh yeah, that's the same thing. And she's like, yeah, I used to steal them from my dad and so and we chatted and she was just really pleased to meet me and it took me a little while to realize was like I was someone who saw her as a person, so like the men who were in line getting signatures were only seeing her as an obj.

Speaker 3:

A plumberation of parts and most of the women who interacted with her were uncomfortable with her in a way that she could feel. So she actually signed a Playboy for me, even though she wasn't like I was supposed to be. You know, 50 bucks or 30 bucks, whatever you're paying and she signed it actually to dad, which I never gave it to him because I told her that story. And she's like for Jim, your daughter is sweet to stay sweet.

Speaker 3:

And then later, after, like her promotional stuff, she was staying and dancing and she came over and danced with me and she had like one of those glow, glow things like that you, you know, sometimes make a necklace out of around her waist and she took it off and put it around my waist and if I didn't breathe it stayed so anyway, misty Canyon's and the way that Lucifer talks to her reminded me of that moment in my life where I, I truly was genuinely hurt curious, just because I can't imagine the like and I was asked the path that you take. And she was older than me, she was like 25 or 26. And she was saying that Playboy had been wanting her to to to pose for quite some time and she was getting started a singing career, which I think that's also what the Misty Canyon's character was saying yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 3:

And and so like this was part to help her career and so like seeing her as a person, like I felt like I struck a blow for feminism. But it also like the fact that Lucifer is written so that like he appreciates the work she does but he's like recognizing that this is work in a career choice and not just his fat material. You know, I don't know it, just it reminded me of that moment. I feel like it's very rare that you see sex work treated with respect and even here they do have it both ways, like they make the jokes but they make it clear that this is not just something that's a butt of a jokes. At least this the getting to the prostitute stuff in the next episode but I found that very interesting Gave me a chance to tell this really ridiculous story from my youth. So but yeah, so those were the things I noticed in City of Angels this time around.

Speaker 2:

And of course I mean speaking of the jokes to each other. The scene where Lucifer is gonna have a wank while watching Hot Top High School it's interrupted.

Speaker 3:

That was clearly just a joke that the writers told each other we wanna have a chance to see how he knows that movie.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep, okay, all right, can we move on? All about her, yeah, all about her. So now that we know who Pierce is, I went and did some research on the original source material, not the comic book, because I was thinking about Kane and like I'm really looking forward to when we meet Eve in a future season. But I'll save that Kane though. So the mark of Kane is very unclear, what it is from, just the Hebrew scripture. Some of the rabbis, and like the Kabbalists, thought it was a letter, like it would have been like a Hebrew letter. Some disagreement about what that is. Later, christian scholars actually think that it was dark skin. So they thought that and they kind of conflate the curse of Kane with the curse of Ham, who's the one I know is.

Speaker 2:

And that was some of the biblical apologia for slavery, precisely so the mark of Kane was meant to be dark skin and Ham is. The curse of Ham is to be a servant-servant or something like that, and so that was exactly so. It's interesting that they I'm glad that they did not make the actor playing Kane a black man.

Speaker 3:

I think that actually, you know that. That makes it clear to me because I have thought about the fact that Tom Welling is, you know, blonde, blue-eyed, aryan, white guy, which is not what, which is not an Eve would have been. Yeah, but that actually that makes it more understandable why they made that casting decision, cause I had heard about Ham but I don't think I had put together the idea of yeah, the two get conflated.

Speaker 2:

But the actual curse of Kane is that. So originally Kane was the agriculture, like he tended the fields and Abel tended the flock, and Abel's offering of meat was more accepted or somehow more praised like than the offering of the first fruits of the land.

Speaker 3:

And there's different Because God's very much a carnivore, yeah, not a vegan, yeah yeah, and there's different.

Speaker 2:

Like. The rabbis wanted to like, they wanted a better reason, and so like there's some Midrash that suggests that Abel gave the first, the first fruits, like fruits of the flock, and Kane, like, withheld the first fruits and gave like a later, and so that's why it was rejected. That's not in the actual Torah, but there is some Midrash that suggests that. Anyway, I'm going down this rabbit hole. But the whole idea that the mark somehow kept Kane from dying not there at all. Kane says so. God says I hear your blood, brother's blood, and so you will be even more cursed than the earth. And anytime you tend the earth it won't work Like, it won't yield its produce. So he can no longer be a farmer. And Kane says this is too much to bear, I can't be in your presence, god, and therefore people will know that I've done wrong and someone will kill me. And so God says no, I'm going to put this mark on you so that everyone will know not to kill you, because if they do, then my vengeance will be sevenfold. And then Kane goes off and settles in the land of Nod with a wife. I don't know where she comes from, but there's no indication. There's an indication that other humans can't kill Kane, or shouldn't be sevenfold, but there's no indication that Kane can't die, at least not from the Hebrew scriptures.

Speaker 2:

The Mormons seem to have thought that I ran out of time following that particular thread, but there are some. I mean some readers of the Hebrew scripture actually suggest that Lemech, who is one of Kane's descendants, grandchild or maybe great grandchild, actually kills him. And there are other commentators who are like well, if he lived that long he would have died in the flood. So I don't know this whole idea that he's then immortal, cursed with immortality. Yeah though it is true, this is from the source material. When God puts the curse on him, kane says it's too much to bear, I wish you'd just kill me. So that desire for death is from the Hebrew scripture, which God denies. So it's not crazy, it's not like totally far-fetched to kind of extrapolate out a story where Cain wants to die and God is punishing him. Therefore he never dies. But it's also not there in the text. So that that was just like my way over thinking it rabbit hole thing that that I did here, which actually is not a whole lot about this episode, but it kind of is.

Speaker 3:

It kind of is yeah Well, I mean the fact that you know, we know he's Cain, we know, I mean that that's a curse. I mean, like the what?

Speaker 2:

for sure.

Speaker 3:

Here's in this story is experiencing. He can feel the pain of death, but he but he had always heels, which I'm like, and then everything he is ever known always goes to dust. And I, like I can remember being on the campus of my, my alma mater, kenyan College, which I love in a way that is not entirely healthy. You love that place so much and I remember my senior year I was thinking about like climate change or something I don't remember. I was thinking about like things that might get destroyed, and had this, this thought, like, oh my God, there will be a time when this place that I love is a ruin, like that will happen. I mean, probably not my, I'm sure it won't happen in my lifetime, but who know? And like that, like it made me it unutterably sad to think about. And that's just one little place that you know is, and, and so I cannot imagine the anguish of seeing anything that you have ever cared about, always, and knowing, like knowing you shouldn't and can't care about anyone, like even the, the, the, the faux centerman.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the faux centerman, let's talk about that for a minute. You you named it. This was like you remembered from your first watch. When we talked about the faux centerman's death you were like, yeah, he talks about him as like a henchman that went rogue and like I don't know, I was sitting with that a little bit too. Like, in some ways it's kind of an interesting Intellectual exercise to have Kane and Lucifer be like minions man, it's so hard to find good help these days, like. On the other hand, it is entirely unsatisfying to me as a viewer that I have no idea why he did what he did. That is just unsatisfying as as an explanation for sort of the Emotional and body count arc. Like not just like the emotion, like there were a lot of dead people, yes, yes, out of that and and all we get is I have no idea why he did what he did.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's like Point Minions, man Can't trust them Sometimes. Nobody wants to work these days. I've had to kill my last three and now I don't know why I can't find a good one. Anyway, I just it was just really really unsatisfying, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Once. I like sort of work backward from that moment Mm, hmm. Yeah, well, and then that he I mean he blinded himself and, like Pierce, has no insight into any of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's like basically his adopted son. And to your point that you just made like he knows he has there's no point in caring about people, but we saw that he did care, like that was actually one point of Welling's acting. That was not bad, yeah, yeah, when. When you know, when Ella was like you killed it I mean you killed him and he was like shut up. Yeah, like that actually did feel like a legitimate emotional moment for this wooden character.

Speaker 3:

And even said like I've been stabbed and I had to kill the closest thing I have to a friend today. You know it's been a rough day. I'm going home.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Just, I don't know, that was just. It just felt like the writers were like eh, hand wave, yeah, move on, yeah, move on, move on. Pay no attention to the hand, yeah, yeah. So that was. That was a little unsatisfying. I thought the the moment. The other thing that was like sorry, is sticking out in my head right now, the moment in the truck, the surveillance van with the two Tom's, when Pierce grabs Lucifer's face is like do it, yeah, like this, and Lucifer just lets it stay. Like, just like.

Speaker 3:

I don't think that's how it would have gone down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I think that if Kane Pierce put hand on Lucifer's face. Yeah, he would have been like fuck off me man.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Don't touch the goods, just I, just. I mean, I believe that he would have then done the mojo, but I don't believe you would have like that.

Speaker 3:

Well, and I remember like I'm I was sitting there like looking at that Pierce's hand, going like is that manicure it was? It was there for a long time. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that I was like weird, weird, yeah, and I mean I would have believed that they were distracted by each other and not watching without that extended hand, cheek touching, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Oh my. So I do want to talk about a couple other things in all, about her One the fact that Chloe actually names it like I don't know why. I have I ever trusted a manipulative narcissist? I don't remember what all she said.

Speaker 2:

Megalomaniac. Megalomaniac or egomaniac. I think it was narcissistic egomaniac. It's the worst thing, yeah.

Speaker 3:

And so, like I appreciated that being named. Yeah, like, like she, she has good reason to be fed up with him, although, again, it falls apart if you look at it. Like you know he kidnapped. So I'm like you broke the guy out of prison. You know, like not that she doesn't have a reason to be angry, just that, like look within a little bit there, chloe, you know you should not have done that, even though your lieutenant clearly signed off on it and there's been no repercussions. Like she says, I risked my job. I'm like, did you know, did you? Yeah, yeah, you got a little bit of main character syndrome, yeah, which, again, like, I'm not faulting that's, that's the writing, but that she, she, it's interesting what it was that finally got her to call him a narcissist. Yeah, and part of it was like he put himself in danger, I think, and but it was also that he jeopardized her career. So Do you think, do you disagree?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it, I mean, I feel, I think that the writers also want us to maybe, maybe, think that she's starting to realize she has options, because she's been for a minute now, she's been romantically interested in him and it's not happening. And she doesn't know that it's because he doesn't believe she can give authentic consent. And, per our conversation about the last two episodes, the writers really want us to see some chemistry between Pierce and Chloe. There is none, there is none, but the writers want us to think there is. Ella says there is yeah, from Pierce to Chloe. And then in this episode, when she realizes he's leaving and she's like, well, you know, maybe you don't have to go, like then I think we're meant to see that it's reciprocated. And so the fact those two things happened her calling him a narcissist and her sort of being like, well, maybe you don't have to go to Pierce I think maybe we're meant to see some connection, some correlation between those two things which will play out in the rest of the season.

Speaker 3:

I gotta say, though, Chloe Decker has got to expand her dating circle beyond the precinct Amen sister Amen. That is an HR nightmare.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh so and again. Although it also makes a certain amount of sense. She's completely eaten up by her job, and so it makes sense that the only people she interacts with are coworkers or cops.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, and I like okay, Down with that. It's just the like you can someone from a different precinct yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know like I have someone from the DA's office. I mean like you interact with other people than the ones who's desks are right across from you, right next to you. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and again it's the writing shortcut In some ways. Yeah, you gotta get people together In the same way. I was thinking about this in City of Angels when characters happen to see a news report that reflects exact like that pertains to them, and Amenity Elsie's the news report about Aiden Scott's death, and it's like it's a writing shortcut because, yeah, you gotta.

Speaker 2:

We don't have time. It's a 42 minute show. We got shit to do, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's like it's a porn trope, it's, it works, it works, it makes sense. And like they at least are in a place where it makes sense that TV would be on, yeah, but that it's similar, where it's just like, yeah, you're dating people you work with, because that's all we ever see. Is you working? Yeah, so, and we need there to be a love triangle and it's a workplace comedy in some ways, yeah, yeah. So that was one thing.

Speaker 3:

The other thing I wanted to talk about was Amenity El and Linda's fight at the end. So the first time I watched this, I was horrified at how Amenity El said, like will you slept with my brother? You could have given the committee to me. And I was just like what a douchey thing to say. And then, like he gets the call, like oh, it was a false positive and and he's like I guess we fought over nothing. And in my head I'm going like yeah, linda should be like no, it wasn't nothing, we're done. You know, like that was such a dick thing to say this time around as a partially, because I was thinking about our view of sex work as a society. The fact that she said I can't believe you slept with a prostitute is similarly judgy and kind of awful. And I'm like with Linda's reaction. That is within socially accepted parameters, like we're like socially, we feel comfortable saying like I can't even remember that.

Speaker 2:

We have been conditioned to be judgy about sex work.

Speaker 3:

And and Menadil's reaction is kind of considered out of bounds because although really that was sex work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because, yeah, because Lucifer was do give, he was getting music, getting something in exchange for the sex. Yeah, yeah, so in some ways Lucifer was a sex sex worker. Yeah, in their original arrangement. Yeah, he just was giving sex in exchange for therapy, therapy, yeah, Instead of money. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

It was gross, Just that that that conversation was gross.

Speaker 2:

Looking back on it, Having the angel test positive for Chlamydia is, it seems like that cheap shot to me? I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

It that felt like they wanted to joke at Menadil's expense, Like the writers wanted to joke at Menadil's expense and they wanted a way for Mays to find out. Yeah, so, and there I mean it was like the, the scene where I mean partially, cause I'm blanking on her name, the one who plays Linda Rachel Harris. Rachel Harris is such an amazing comic actress. Her reaction, Like I just whined about having Chlamydia, yeah, Amazing. And then her whole reaction to like the knife and everything you know, because she's like she's got a guilty conscience. So everything her best friend is saying is making her freak out. Yeah, and partially cause.

Speaker 2:

It's like, it's like amazing, it's terrifying.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, for that comedy moment. Awesome. I wish they had done either done more with it and like actually explored it or not done it at all. Yeah, with it just being like, oh, never mind, because it's like sniffles them, like how is, what is the illness he has? And it's never explained. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we are running out of time, so lay some fluff on me.

Speaker 3:

So I feel like City of Angels was partially the writer's going like we need to get a menadil shirtless as much as possible Because, damn Damn, I think those parts of my enjoy the episode more than I expected to Like. When he runs in, he's like getting out of his his dress which also overthinking fluff jump it out of his dress and and Lucifer's like, oh well, okay, how about his brother? I mean, maybe he's thinking like his brother will ask one of the the lovely individuals who are there to go privately somewhere else. But considering the way Lucifer feels about mom and Charlotte Richards, so but yeah, that was Whoo, and like not to shirtless because, like you also see his legs and it's just like, oh man, I'm going to be one side or keeping a rail.

Speaker 2:

All right, I remember the fluff that I wanted to share. See, I knew I would not get loose. Thank you, the car. So they wanted to give us some cannon for how he got the car. And he uses a miracle. You know me, brother, I can turn anything on. He has keys to the car in the pilot because he tosses them to the ballet ballet. Yeah, so I mean, that's just a little piece of fluff, but that like they don't. They don't use that like Lucifer's power. Very often he has the mojo, which we see all the time, like almost every episode, and then he has superhuman strength, which we see now and then, but it seems as though maybe, well, they're inconsistent. Sometimes Chloe, if Chloe's near him, he doesn't have the superhuman strength. Sometimes he does like, like lifting up the car I'm thinking about. I think that comes later. I think she's around when he does that, I will know.

Speaker 3:

I feel like he does have superhuman strength around her. He just is not.

Speaker 2:

But like, what about the in the episode with the drugs and the drug dealer? And it turns out to be the nurse and she's got the thing and like he is choking him and he's like she thinks he's going to beg for his life and he says, please don't tell him how I died. Like, why would you not have the strength to like just get out of that hole? Oh, you're right, it was cause she was nearby. You're right. I think they're inconsistent with it. Yeah, it's like what works with the writing. Yeah, I'm like I'll give them a pass. But it is interesting to me that they have been have used other supernatural powers so sparingly, which I guess makes a certain amount of sense. But also kind of like it was kind of fun when he just like turned on the engine because he can turn anything on, and that was adorable, and I don't know I wish there was a little more of that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, Well, like I wish it didn't feel like that was just a one off joke. Yeah, that's what it feels like, cause, like if that actually was, like you know, I can turn anything on which, honestly, like, if you think about, look right, if he's been around since the beginning of time, before the creation of any language, let alone English, where in the metaphor for getting someone in the aroused is turning them on, which did not come about until after the creation of machines, I'm sure you know.

Speaker 2:

So like oh man, that was really good overthinking.

Speaker 1:

All right, I'm calling it, please.

Speaker 2:

I'm calling it with that. With that I am saying we over thug it enough.

Speaker 3:

All right, all right. I just one last thing in in all about her. There's a scene where you can see Chloe well, actually learn German laugh at Tom Ellis. It's when he shows up at the at the surfing thing, and he got her on the ticket and so he's got the things in the bag and he goes in the American accent but wait, there's more. And then he goes, the camera switches to Chloe from the back, so you see the back of her head, but you see her turn and there's just this little smile on her face and I think it's. I think she broke a little bit, but they were able to like and only catch it if you really are overthinking it show, but it's worth watching for that. And also I love hearing that bud wait, there's more. Because he doesn't sound like Michael there, he just sounds like he's selling the sham. Wow.

Speaker 2:

Cool, very cool. All right, y'all catch you next week. See you next week.

Speaker 1:

Our theme song is Ferrell Angel Waltz by Kevin McLeod from Incompetentcom, Licensed under creative commons by attribution 4.0 license. Visit the show notes for the URL. I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narrakicom. Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, Netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.