“High School Poppycock” and “Infernal Guinea Pig” are fun episodes with some serious overthinking potential.
In conversation about “High School Poppycock,” Emily relates her experience unhinging her jaw and swallowing the Twilight series whole. In fact, that brief conversation on Emily’s thoughts about Twilight became the pilot for the Guy Girls’ other project, Deep Thoughts about Stupid Sh*t. Also in this episode: Chekhov’s photo booth and Chloe’s understandable fangirling on the subjects of the high school drama of the viral novels at the heart of the case-of-the-week.
About “Infernal Guinea Pig,” the sisters have deep appreciation for the hilarity of Bree/Abel (Lauren Lapkus) and ponder over the likelihood that Chloe would recognize a “blasting cap.” Tracie deeply overthinks the pronunciation of Cain’s name (when said by his brother in a moment of panic) and the sisters laugh about the ways in which Tom Welling is a wild turkey.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
“High School Poppycock” and “Infernal Guinea Pig” are fun episodes with some serious overthinking potential.
In conversation about “High School Poppycock,” Emily relates her experience unhinging her jaw and swallowing the Twilight series whole. In fact, that brief conversation on Emily’s thoughts about Twilight became the pilot for the Guy Girls’ other project, Deep Thoughts about Stupid Sh*t. Also in this episode: Chekhov’s photo booth and Chloe’s understandable fangirling on the subjects of the high school drama of the viral novels at the heart of the case-of-the-week.
About “Infernal Guinea Pig,” the sisters have deep appreciation for the hilarity of Bree/Abel (Lauren Lapkus) and ponder over the likelihood that Chloe would recognize a “blasting cap.” Tracie deeply overthinks the pronunciation of Cain’s name (when said by his brother in a moment of panic) and the sisters laugh about the ways in which Tom Welling is a wild turkey.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 2:I am here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken, who does not use a hyphen. And I am here with my sister, tracy Guy-Dekker, who does use a hyphen and together we are lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show. And you bet your ass we're overthinking it. You're sweet ass. So today we're talking about season three, episodes 15 and 16, high school poppycock and infernal guinea pig.
Speaker 3:These are fun episodes.
Speaker 2:They are. Well, let's start at the beginning with high school poppycock. Where do you want to?
Speaker 3:Well, first I want to say you and I need pink and blue neon wigs just to have, because I think we can rock them.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I want the blue one. All right, fair enough, I will be right. Okay, All right. So that was a fluffy start for that one. This is an interesting episode in terms of like it was trying to give us some backstory on Chloe. I'm not sure how successful it actually was, but or how much I believe it I guess is more to the point, but I think I thought that was kind of an interesting, you know, piece of her backstory and then some like really cringey moments also.
Speaker 3:I honestly this is one of the few times where I really enjoy where she and Lucifer switch roles, because oftentimes I'm just like, oh, to make it stop when they switch roles. But there's something about her like getting eaten up by this, by the books, by the books. That is like charming and feels understandable.
Speaker 2:It also is written in such a way that it was authentically Chloe, as opposed to other times when she's like when she has him in the ear and she's trying to be Lucinda, that's just like, yeah, so where she's, where she's trying to be something other than who she is, but all of her reactions and actions are come authentically from her, not her trying to be somebody, somebody else, and so I think probably that also contributes to the charm.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and because of my experience with reading Twilight, I kind of understood and that should go on your tombstone because frankly, that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:What I've learned about. I just, I'm just not interested.
Speaker 3:So here's the thing about Stephanie Meyer. So I read Twilight books. I was 30, maybe 31. I was still teaching, so this would have been about 2009, 2010. And one of my students loaned the books to me. It was like, oh, miss Perkin, you got to read these. I read the first one and like swallowed it whole, basically like unhinged my mouth and, and you know, took it entirely like a snake.
Speaker 3:And what I will say about Stephanie Meyer? She's not a good writer. What she does have is the ability to immerse a reader, and there are a few writers who can do that. So, like Dan Brown had that same ability also not a good writer. And these are the two that I can think of. I'm sure there are others who are better. I think Stephen King probably can do that pretty well too. But I was reading this as a fully grown woman who was married, who had a job, who spent time with teenagers and recognized, like, the difference between teenage reactions to things and more mature adult reactions to things, and reading it I was 15 again and I felt all of the angst and that's what.
Speaker 3:Chloe is experiencing, and I think I have no doubt that the writer's room had a similar experience. I like to think that they had the same reaction that I did, like I put the book down and then had like mental nausea afterwards because it's like oh God, what did I just read? This is really awful stuff, it's. My major reaction after reading Twilight was thank God this wasn't around when I was 13. I would have been obsessed and not had the ability to see the horrible, damaging viewpoints within it, but that is like. That struck me as very, very realistic that she would be like babe, what are you doing out of bed? Like, what are you talking about? It's morning You're gonna miss the bus Because I read Twilight in that same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And because she did not get that high school experience, I can kind of also see her having the like oh my God, it's Tristan and there's Emily, and, oh my God, max and Isabelle. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2:Like I can see that because it's sort of fingerling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because she doesn't necessarily have the distance, because she didn't get to experience it the first time, right? So I appreciated the way that that part of the story was told. And then I also loved the fact that Lucifer, once he realized what was going on, was just like have your fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually that was a moment that felt really authentic. I guess, when she says I know it's stupid, they're in the car and she talks about how she never went to prom, yeah, and like she kind of dismisses herself as that it being stupid or silly or something. I don't remember the exact word, but he was like no, no, it isn't.
Speaker 1:And like that was it.
Speaker 2:It wasn't. There was no joke, there was no. It wasn't even any comforting of her, it was just like that is not ridiculous, yeah, which was really I don't know. I just appreciated that moment of his just like statement of fact. It is not ridiculous.
Speaker 3:Well, and what's lovely also is that, like he's not human, he didn't go to high school, he doesn't understand these rituals, or you would think that he doesn't understand these rituals, but he does, like he gets that this is a ritual that she missed out on and that's sad. That's something that she missed, and she regrets it somewhat when he asks her to prom at the end and I don't know if I didn't notice the first few times I've seen this episode, but he's wearing a bow tie, like he's wearing a tuxedo.
Speaker 2:I did notice that they dance with like her, like anything to start with her hands on both shoulders, like we did when we were 15. Yeah, the name is for stuff.
Speaker 3:But like there was something very, very lovely about that, about you know, like you didn't get to have this experience. This isn't the same, but here's a taste. He's got a problem with me.
Speaker 1:Here's a taste of it.
Speaker 3:And he got a corsage which is awesome so my memory was in a clamshell case.
Speaker 2:It's not, it's just separate, but in my when I was remembering from watching it the first time, which just shows how much like other things were influencing my memory. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I enjoyed that aspect of it. I also the okay, first of all, when he says says to Dan, like Dan, you don't have many ideas, or something like that. Dan goes huh and he says exactly Nicely so that entire, and then to the like, the yes and yes, and it doesn't seem to be working.
Speaker 2:This is clearly not working.
Speaker 3:And, like Chloe, pointing out like, yeah, you're not saying anything different from anything you would normally say.
Speaker 2:You're just saying yes in front of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that was pretty funny. I also I really appreciated that the obsessed fan was an adult man, yeah, and like it was a lovely way for them to kind of make fun of fandom without making fun of teenage girls. Yeah, because fandom sometimes deserves a little skewering, but a lot of times the skewering is not because of the fandom, it's totally gendered, it's totally because we don't like teenage girls, yeah, and so they completely avoided that by making the obsessed fan an adult man and that's awesome. Like I really really appreciate that, because a lot of the backlash against Twilight in particular was because girls and women like it and not because it needed to be pushed against because it's awful and it promotes like really really toxic beliefs and stereotypes about.
Speaker 2:And gendered relationships.
Speaker 3:Gender roles yeah.
Speaker 2:Gender roles and that's why I don't want to. I mean, those are the things that I've heard that maybe now will read it.
Speaker 3:Ooh, what a watch. Well, it's a four book. Chastity oh gosh, what's the word? I'm thinking of Parable, thank you, chastity. Parable, yeah, and not really interested in Chastity parables, yeah, if we ever have time I would love to go into. I have literary and psychoanalyzed Stephanie Meyer, but she's terrified of death and she feels very ambivalent about Mormonism, and I can prove it Between Twilight and then her book the Host, which is her standalone, not YA, anyway. So I have, I have thoughts.
Speaker 2:We'd need to set aside a half hour, but I've never read any of those things either, so I cannot contribute.
Speaker 3:If any of our 14 subscribers are interested, just let me know, because I find it fascinating. So anyway, the other thing I think is worth discussing in high school Poppycock is the double date.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very cringey moment.
Speaker 3:It's. It's one of those where, like you'd have to like try to write someone as unpleasant as Todd and like harmlessly unpleasant, like I mean, there's the point where they're like, oh my goodness, he's a killer. But other than that, like there's he doesn't his interest in dental stuff and Lobelia being used for constipation and stuff is is harmless yeah is the unpleasant. Yeah, but he's, he's also right. Rachel Harris, as Linda looks particularly lovely. Not seen in that episode. Yes, I mean she's always lovely, but she she looks at.
Speaker 2:Red dress that she wears is like awesome fire.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but Linda's reaction to May's calling her selfish is really interesting because on the one hand, like I do think that Linda is not entirely wrong, but neither is May's, and I was thinking because we were talking about love triangles last episode I was thinking about this love triangle. It's kind of a true triangle, except that it's not sexual between me and Linda's not sexual, right, yeah, and the fact that Linda chooses friendship when she really cares for men, a deal is kind of amazing.
Speaker 2:It is and I feel like it the whole, the whole conversation actually falls into a false binary. Like I know what you said, like I prefer that you not because it makes me uncomfortable, but ultimately, what was really distressing, the ways in which it was really selfish I mean, they did it for good reason but was the lying and the sneaking right, like as Lucifer said to May's through the closed door in the episode where he got stuck in the meat locker, like you don't want him but you won't let him have anyone, like that, and how is that OK? Like I just feel, like actually, the third way would have been a conversation to be like I don't want to hurt you, but I really like him and he really likes me, and that's actually rare, and what can we do to make you feel better about this, because I'm going to do it? That feels like a third way that was just ignored, which I would think, frankly, a therapist would have been able to come up with, you know.
Speaker 3:The only reason why I would see that as not an option is because Maze is a demon and emotionally very immature, and so in some ways, Linda is treating her a little way like a single parent would if their child said I'm uncomfortable with you dating my teacher, something like that. Not that it's okay for while the teacher is teaching the child, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, yes, yes. And she's not a child and she won't grow if she's not given opportunities to stretch. And like, I mean, like Linda chose her path, went, and we understand why. Because she was genuinely afraid of Maze would do her physical harm. She I mean, we saw her genuine fear in previous episodes, but she made her choice when Maze was like, you know, don't, don't bone him and she already was, and Linda said okay, and so that set her on the path of this binary. But ultimately it's not. It's not either or there's a whole host of other options. Anyway, I mean, you know, 42 minute crime solving double two.
Speaker 2:Not really like the place to explore those options. I mean it makes sense and also, like you know, especially like the therapist.
Speaker 3:True. One of the things she said, though, is like this is not who I am.
Speaker 2:She says that in the second episode. Yeah, when they sit down, but I still think that this is not who I am. This is like knowing that what I'm doing is hurting my friend and not doing anything. Like I still think there are options between, like cessation of the relationship and continued to sneak around behind Maze's back and lie, yeah, but then that allowed a menadial to. Actually, because when Maze says this is I'm sure this is what your dad meant for you to be doing, like that hurt him. You could, like she showed the blow of that one, like without the choreography it was, I believed it like that hurt, that hurt and that falls into that whole chastity parable a little bit Again, which I'm not too big on, and also like it's totally believable within the character and the framework the show has set up. But for him to say like, yeah, I'm not who I am either, needed that very strong. I'm going this other way from Linda for him to react to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, speaking of love triangles, let's talk about Infernal Guinea Pig, because I actually, after we had that conversation about love triangles last time and my wishing that the showrunners had pushed harder on the Pierce Lucifer romance, like actually in Infernal Guinea Pig we see Chloe jealous of their relationship. It's in a professional context, but it's like very clearly jealousy, which I think is really interesting. And after had just said that in our last, you know, in our last conversation watching it, I was like, oh cool, it's a thing. I'm glad she's feeling that way, because that validates what I was thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, infernal Guinea Pig is funny that I don't. I didn't look up the woman's name, but the actress who plays that's her name who plays Brie slash Abel. She has fun with that role. She's amazing. They had a lot of fun and it was awesome. What's?
Speaker 3:hilarious is like her delivery is so earnest Really large.
Speaker 2:I have a large fluff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's what you and I both it could support two wives and our offspring and our offspring's offspring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, she did a great job and like the man spreading oh yeah, perfect, I was, I was. I was pleased with her performance.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, and I also like, like, when, when a Menadil picks up the tray, yeah, it shows her, shows her her reflection and she's like her.
Speaker 3:these wasn't mine, that's so awesome and what I, what I really appreciate is she's there's no like gay panic, like when she thinks Menadil's hitting on her. She's like look, I've told all of the men who have come to me that's not what I'm into. Like and that's all it is. It's just like no, thank you, and why do I have to keep saying this, like I'm not used to this, and then like oh well, no, what, yeah, yeah, her, her delivery is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all of that made a lot of sense. The thing that didn't, I don't know. Like when Pierce learns that Abel is in hell and says I haven't tried to tell people he was the ass hat, you know, I think like it feels really validated, like I just that's really sad and messed up that after 5,000 years your responses I told you he was the jerk.
Speaker 3:Well, that actually gets to Pierce Kane really being evil, like he really. I mean, like that's. That's what he immediately goes to. And then the way the conversation he has with Lucifer. When Lucifer's like how do you know you're not going to hell, he's like cause, I don't feel any guilt, like mm. And that gets to like the same things that we get in the Reddit stuff is just like what about sociopaths? And I think it's actually very in comic book character and somewhat in in in how Lucifer has been written for the TV show. But in the comic book Lucifer doesn't lie, but it doesn't tell the whole truth. And so Lucifer, upon hearing that, would be like yeah, you're going to hell, yeah, and like you know yeah, agreed, agreed agreed and you know, just because you're, guilt holds you there.
Speaker 3:If you are someone who's capable of feeling guilty, doesn't mean that's the only way to hold you there. Yeah, it doesn't mean you have a free pass. If you're incapable of it, yeah, so it just. It makes it all the more clear how dangerous Kane is and that this friendship with Lucifer is doomed Well it's entirely Machiavellian or Kane.
Speaker 2:I don't know that it is for Lucifer, well, partially, but I think it's entirely Machiavellian for Kane, yeah.
Speaker 3:So and it's sad like as we were talking about in the last episode, that in the Till Death Thou's Part episode we saw some of the pathos of being Kane and how Lucifer is one of the very few people who can understand him and there's a possibility for an actual connection there. That could be a real friendship, that could be a comfort to Kane, but he is so focused on what he wants, which fits with the biblical story. Yeah, it very much works. And then that also like the idea that guilt keeps you there, the fact that when, when Kane's like I'm just the one to one the fight, like that's a horrible thing to say, and then also thinking about how Lucifer felt, about when he really had no choice but to kill Uriel in the last he had no choice.
Speaker 1:He felt he had no choice.
Speaker 3:Well, it was that, or two people, two other people he cared about dying. It was not kill or be killed, it was not, but it was protective, whereas the story of Kane and Abel is very much selfish. But they were fighting each other and Abel feels guilty for intending to kill Kane, because otherwise why would?
Speaker 2:presumably that's why he's there.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why would Abel be in, tell, yeah, I guess so, and that I mean that fits with the loop of having him kill him over and over again. Yeah, yeah, that moment when Abel in the in breeze body kills Kane and then he comes back and then you know Abel freaks out, is like just do it quickly. That was a moment where, at my overthinking brain, I really wish that Abel had pronounced it, not being pushed away, which I know, like 99% of the people watching it would have been confused if Abel had called him Kane or something. But that was a moment where my overthinking brain was like he would have come out with actual original pronunciation in that moment of panic.
Speaker 3:Well, in the same way that mom Kane is on my side Right after that, when Pierce says sarcastically thanks for the heads up to May's, because May's obviously the other, him Well, maybe made, allowed Abel to find Kane and she's like I thought you wanted to die. Make up your mind, cupcake. Yeah. That was a great line, great line.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, seriously, like, do you want this or not? The way that a menadil is trying to, like I understand. A menadil is trying to get Abel back to hell and without his wings he can't just fly him back to hell. But who that's dark like here, have a gun.
Speaker 2:Was that to kill himself? Yeah, I mean, that's the way Abel understood it. Yeah, huh, it is dark. Yeah, I was a little confused because I was a little confused in this rewatch because they were just talking about having potentially the even Stephen of having Abel kill Kane, right before we see that scene and I was like when did a man get in on the so which he didn't? Like that becomes clear. But that actual moment when he passes the gun across the, yeah, that is really dark. Yeah, interesting too.
Speaker 2:I mean I know May's, you know we had a nice little like hand wave so that Abel would speak English, that May's and the other demons taught him all kinds of languages in many, many loops. I guess they also taught him firearms. Yeah, I mean, like you know, 6,000 year old man wouldn't recognize a gun, let alone know how to use it. When the bad guy Bolivian was aiming at, yeah, I don't know. No, that was like that was a moment that when they, when he, when he recognizes what the gun is and then uses it, that I was like you're just gonna have to go with the trace, you're just gonna have to swallow this Well, and the incredulity Back that Abel has learned such adaptability but gets run over by ambulance at the end.
Speaker 2:It's just like which is the and that's the third time Abel's nearly hit by a car. Yeah, or actually, or actually hit by car.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean that also just felt like a well, we can have Abel running around. What are we going to do? Oh, this will be funny. Yeah, have Pierce say that as long as he's alive and then instantly get hit by a truck. That'll be funny, yeah, yeah, which is kind of gross. Poor Bree, poor Bree, poor Bree's family. Yeah, because they don't know that it was the like. Yeah, first murder victims. Soul in her body for the last couple days. Yeah, they just know she almost died and then did die.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Sorry, folks, watch your mouth there. Tracy Family. So we should probably talk about Charlotte's hell loop and the fact that she she's like preferably, if you can help me do it, while I sleep, because that's four hours that I'm just wasting every day. I'm like wow, four hours, how do you?
Speaker 2:I know there are people like that, but yeah, yeah, no, I think. I think it is a like. It's a physiological like Thomas Edison apparently didn't sleep yeah, Very much like his whole life. But if I don't get eight hours I'm useless, like totally useless.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I am prone to naps I am likely to take one after.
Speaker 2:No, I am too, mainly because I almost never get eight hours, so I have to fill in in the middle. Yeah, it says I got six and a half last night, so I'm short 90 minutes.
Speaker 3:I really appreciated Linda being like, therapy's not something you can win at Like. Oh, I can win at anything. I feel a little called out. I'm not quite that hard driving, but there I definitely do have the like. Okay, what's the best way to do this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:How do I maximize?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember. I remember going to see a rabbi after one of our family members well, two of our family members had passed away and like just talking for a long time and finally he was like okay, tracy, you've been talking a lot and you don't have to rush through this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I agree with. I mean the like. Well, for one thing, atricia Helfer did a fantastic job describing her hell loop. I mean like that that you really feel it. And then Linda's reaction, like that was a very brave start, is also like you really feel that as well, because it was very difficult for her to admit to share it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think even Rachel Harris's delivery as the receiver of the story like she doesn't speak but she has this very subtle like head nod, like that says like I heard you keep going that I think was really powerful and believable. That it was very subtle when the camera pan to Rachel Harris's face as as as Charlotte was telling her story. Yeah, actually, charlotte's epiphany moment when Bree able as Bree says, if you had been there you would do anything to avoid going back. The writers, they, the showrunners, hit us over the head a little bit, but I appreciated it, I think. I kind of needed it honestly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and they did. But then her reaction was not hit over the head, I mean, it wasn't like subtle, but it was like. It was like, oh wait, maybe I could apply this to my life. You know, like that scene with Able and Chloe and Chloe and Charlotte when Chloe like leans into Charlotte and she's like Pierce has told me there's some PTSD. And then also the fact that Able has such respect for you are both very wise. I have been told Pierce's regular discombobulation with pronouns when talking about Bruce slash Able.
Speaker 2:I understand it because it's yeah, we had that just just now. It's interesting, though that like when Lucifer corrects Pierce and then Chloe's just like whatever, I don't even want to know, but the interplay in that scene between the three of them is delightful.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's pretty funny. Yeah, I'm a fan. And then I forgive me because I watched it last night so I'm forget. But aren't like Pierce and Lucifer in the other watching. They're watching in there kind of like shitting bricks because they're concerned about what they're going to figure out about.
Speaker 2:Able. They seem not too concerned about that, with. What bothers them is at the end, when Chloe leaves with oh, that's right, they said so much for being released into your custody, pierce's custody.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. Okay, what kind of bomb is that that, like, as long as you keep your thumb on it, the bomb is not going to go off.
Speaker 2:I figured that that was the like, the trigger, like sort of like the grenade you hold the handle as long as you're holding in the handle.
Speaker 3:Gotcha, all right. All right, I'll buy that. I thought I was thinking it was like speed. You know the movie, like you know, over 40 miles per hour. It's engaged under 40 miles an hour.
Speaker 2:Boom, I assumed it was like whatever, because the trigger was to open the drawer, but actually I figured the trigger was the pressure on the thumb, the thumb print thing, and so once the pressure was removed, then it would be fully detonated. That's the way I read that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Scene. But that note, that totally makes sense. That's what they were.
Speaker 2:That's what the writers were thinking.
Speaker 3:Okay, I will buy that. I just it had me like I was just like really really.
Speaker 2:So the thing in that scene that had me saying that was like I mean maybe you get some explosive training in the academy or something, but like if I was looking at plastic and wires and told me to pull the blasting cap, I mean you might as well, tell me to pull the flipper.
Speaker 2:You dip it. I don't know what that is. I don't know what it looks like. I don't like. That was the bit that I was like. I mean, he didn't even say it'll look like this and be this color, be this, like she just knew what a blasting cap would look like. Which I don't know. Maybe cops do get some like well, maybe not cops, but the 101, I don't know, get to a certain level.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't know, maybe a blasting cap looks very much like something that's in a firearm. I don't know. You can see our complete lack of knowledge about weapons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Incendiary devices, I don't know, but that was the thing that I was like, really Like I don't know, and I've been trained by movies too, that like the person on the other end of the phone with the person with the thing, like the red wire no, not the green one, I'm colorblind, like you know like it's always about slipping a wire, so I guess that also was part of why I was confused, because it didn't match the script of the explosives.
Speaker 3:Well. But she said so what do I do? Cut the wires. And he's like, oh damn movies, that's true. That's true. It was a very light case of the week, like it seemed pretty obvious that the boss had something to do with it.
Speaker 2:Like well, I mean, we're in that run of episodes where the first person they interview is the killer, Always, yeah, I mean like there's just like a whole stretch, especially in season three, where that yeah.
Speaker 3:And I I had this thought that, like you know, I'm really good at like murder mysteries, but that's because there's an economy of characters and so that's in the real world. Probably it is relatively likely that either the first or one of the first people you interview would be the killer, because but at the same time it could be anyone on earth Not quite that big, but still we are having that and 42 minute show. Same as with writing a murder mystery, like there's got to be an economy of characters for it to be fair, you can introduce a character in the last minute who's like oh and now we found him and we've never heard of him before. But that's breaking the rules of.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's just unsatisfying for the viewer slash reader.
Speaker 3:And we never get to know the actual Brie, to know anything about right, like motive or what she was doing. Right, she died before the show started, or yeah, I mean we see her in a coma in a coma and then flat lining and then she is gone and hopefully she's in heaven and having a good time eating pudding or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Amenadiel and Linda, their relationship, which, from season six, like looking back, like having seen the whole thing, like I had forgotten how Real it was, like in my memory it was just sort of a sexual relationship, but these two episodes in particular made it clear that there was a real Connection that was beyond just Sexual chemistry which is interesting in retrospect.
Speaker 2:It's interesting to see that you know, and also like Some of the early in the midrash, like some of the early like thought the whole idea of a fallen angel is because the angels wanted to have sex with human women and like that was like a big ol, no-no. So how do you reason why?
Speaker 3:it was a big ol, no-no.
Speaker 2:I Don't know.
Speaker 3:I haven't studied it I think those poor women would never be satisfied by human man again, or Just like it's just not fair. It's not fair to any of the, any of the humans to do this.
Speaker 2:I'm a human man, I don't know. I it? Yeah, it was a clear like I. I've read the translation of the text that you know says that they Copulated with with human women. They were tempted and now and that was the cause of their fall. So I just think that's really interesting Back story. For when May says I'm sure this is what your dad man Well, you know why you were down here and even the sort of he really cares about her and feels deeply connected like adds an extra layer to the you know, ancient, ancient, just story that was just, I mean it's always just prurient, you know in my mind, but anyway, yeah, so that that was.
Speaker 2:That's kind of a nice reminder in my like Mental furniture of the characters that there was a real, true, deep connection between the two of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Moving forward we see it shifts to a different but still real connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, one of the things I think I appreciate is I feel like what I, what I like about Linda choosing to end the relationship is Is that it feels realistic to who she is in that as much as she she loves men and she loved Reese and clearly she loves a man a deal those are not necessarily the central relationships in her life, and so that I think that's one of the reasons why I appreciate it is I feel like, based on how the character is written, she's someone who has chosen to center like friendship and and Her professional relationships in that care for her patients, rather than center a romantic relationship, as much as she really appreciates the, the accoutrements of romance, of the fallen angel, of it all, and so part of the reason why I appreciate that is because I like seeing that, like I talked many, many episodes ago about sex in the city, and one of the things that Bothered me a bit about the way the show originally ended was that all four of the women are in Coupled in heterosexual relationships, and it's just like the show was about the importance of these friendships, but the happily ever after is still heterosexual relationship instead of it being like our friendship is what sustains us, and so I appreciate seeing not just an example of it, but like an example of a highly intelligent, professional, very attractive, like sexual woman who decides to make friendships the center of her life.
Speaker 3:Further on, we learn there's other stuff, but I would love to see more of that. In the same way, like you know it's, it feels so good to go back and watch Golden Girls. Yeah, there's. There's just something so lovely about the, the, the bonds between friends, that we don't get to see as the happy ending in a lot of stories. Yeah, yeah. So have we ever thunk it enough? Maybe we have. I have a little bit of fluff, though I would love to hear your fluff, because I don't think I have any.
Speaker 2:So in high school poppycock, when Lucifer as Todd is confronting one of the dudes and like trying to figure out where he was or whatever, and like like gets up in his face, they kind of like duck into a photo booth, yeah, yeah, and there's like a flash and the sound of it like repeatedly, and and then that's it. Like I really wanted to see the strip like it's, it's checkoffs photo booth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had forgotten about that, but you're right. When they were doing that, I was just like why don't we end up seeing the strip?
Speaker 2:Why did they do that visual gas? They weren't going to give us the photos at the end. Yeah, is he going to have his devil's face in the pictures? Like what? Like it, just it felt like an open loop that never got closed. I wonder if it ran up on the ended up on the cutting room floor.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, it's the gun on the mantle. It doesn't go off. Yeah, that's a, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was, because I was like, oh, what pictures are they going to be? And then we never saw. So that was a little bit, that was. That was a piece of fluff for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm having a British accents when, as Todd, and she's like, oh and you have a British accent, he's like I've had many accents over the years. This one, this was clear. They're the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh yeah, she just, and she just accepted that yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to argue. I mean, look at you. True, true, true. Yes, all right, the one piece of fluff I'm going to I'm going to share is so. We've mentioned before how Tracy, random times, will send me pictures of Tom Ellis. I do just text them to me, and so I sent her some, some pictures of Tom Welling from circa smallville era, and the first one Tracy's like holy wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think my exact words were Wow and then drew.
Speaker 3:It's where the second one, which is one of the promotional photos, like I have seen this one many times, but like his eyes are just so piercing and like the way I described it is like you could cut glass with his gaze or his bone structure. And Tracy's response was like full too much lip gloss, I'm like it is the exact right amount of lip gloss and blush and eyeshadow, I don't care. Very pretty in that picture, so pretty.
Speaker 2:No, but actually even better than that was your point that Tom Ellis ages like fine wine. Tom Welling ages like wild turkey. It'll still get you there. It's a little rough.
Speaker 3:Oh man, I think. I think the difference is well, not necessarily. There's some pretty men who aged love in a lovely way, but I think like the really pretty does does not necessarily age, as well as like someone who is, you know, handsome, just gets more handsome. I don't know. I'm not sure I don't know, I'm just thinking like the way with it, the way Johnny depth looks now, and some of that has to do with my opinion of him now.
Speaker 2:Well, also lots of drug use and the facial hair and the eye makeup that continues but isn't put on particularly well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, but sorry, tom Welling, but we still like you.
Speaker 2:Wild turkey. You, I'm not gonna put my phone in it now.
Speaker 1:I can't take anymore. Our theme song is feral angel waltz by Kevin McLeod from incompetent doorcom, Licensed under creative commons by attribution 4.0 license. Visit the show notes for the URL. I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narakeedcom. Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Emily and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, Netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.