“Orange is the New Maze” and the “Angel of San Bernadino” provide some interesting character development for Maze and some reminders that Lucifer is, in fact, the devil. Emily explores the ADHD-esque behavior of both Lucifer and Maze (hyper-fixation, missing social cues, etc) while Tracie appreciates Lauren German’s acting (for once). In true Guy Girl form, the sisters crack one another up talking about Pierce’s TERRIBLE pick-up lines and speculate on whether Chloe and Pierce are never-nudes.
On a more serious note, Tracie and Emily question the effect of having two immortal beings fall in love with Chloe Decker. Does that make her more special, or less special because she is quite simply a trophy and not a person? We also unpack the rare use of split screen and the tendency of Maze and Lucifer to literally and psychologically pummel one another. But lest you worry we’re too serious, you should know there’s also considerable time spent discussing the realistic response to having one’s sandwich rudely snatched.
Have a listen and overthink with us!
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
“Orange is the New Maze” and the “Angel of San Bernadino” provide some interesting character development for Maze and some reminders that Lucifer is, in fact, the devil. Emily explores the ADHD-esque behavior of both Lucifer and Maze (hyper-fixation, missing social cues, etc) while Tracie appreciates Lauren German’s acting (for once). In true Guy Girl form, the sisters crack one another up talking about Pierce’s TERRIBLE pick-up lines and speculate on whether Chloe and Pierce are never-nudes.
On a more serious note, Tracie and Emily question the effect of having two immortal beings fall in love with Chloe Decker. Does that make her more special, or less special because she is quite simply a trophy and not a person? We also unpack the rare use of split screen and the tendency of Maze and Lucifer to literally and psychologically pummel one another. But lest you worry we’re too serious, you should know there’s also considerable time spent discussing the realistic response to having one’s sandwich rudely snatched.
Have a listen and overthink with us!
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 2:Hey y'all. I'm here with my sister, emily Guy Birken, who does not use a hyphen.
Speaker 3:I don't, and I am here with my sister, tracy Guy Decker, and she does use a hyphen.
Speaker 2:I do, and together we are lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show. And, yeah, we are overthinking it. And so for today's episode M, we are overthinking, overthinking, not rethinking, overthinking. Well, we may rethink also, but we're overthinking. 319 and 320.
Speaker 2:Orange is the new maze and the angel of San Bernardino. You know, I'm realizing in this rewatch with you that, because I always because I binged it the first time I watched it and then I just returned to like not even whole episodes but like the scenes that I love that there's a lot of nuance and emotion that I missed because I binged it, so I just was like what's going to happen next? But now, watching with you, I'm watching two a week and so I'm able to really like sit in the emotion and these two episodes are really thick with emotion. They are, they are, yeah, yeah. So in Orange is the new maze, it's really interesting that it really pushes this whole idea of maze as a demon and is she actually like possible on over them. Actually, both of these episodes in some ways like our push, pull on maze and what kind of person this demon is and if she is redeemable and if her relationships are genuine and like, just, it really is a push pull on that character in both of these two episodes.
Speaker 2:So the first episode because she is the prime suspect in this murder that happens with with her blade, and then the way she reacts to the other people, it's, it's really fascinating. It's definitely, you know, sometimes we talk about like I think we've said this before like there are scenes where I'm like, yep, that totally makes sense. I could see myself on a writing team writing that. I'm not sure that I would have been. I certainly wouldn't have generated sort of the story arc and the ways in which maze reacts and interacts with the other characters, realizing that she is the prime suspect. I'm I believed it, like I thought it was believable, but it was outside of the ways that I would have thought about it. So that was really agitation on a good way for me.
Speaker 3:Mm, hmm, what I find interesting about these two episodes is that Lucifer is almost unforgivably awful in them, and the fact that I don't remember these episodes is that as being like that, I remember them as being like, wow, maze really overreacted, rather than it being like, no, lucifer was awful and I. So I had this realization this morning that I, like, I texted you, and it was in part because of these two episodes. It hit me that Lucifer is kind of neurodivergent, and I mean that he fixates on one thing at a time and like that's, like he it's to the point of almost obsession and is incapable of accepting more information that could add nuance. And then, once he's done with whatever fixation, he moves on to the next thing, and that that feels very apropos for someone who has ADHD. And then the fact that he is like insensitive and like ignoring social cues, in particular with maze and then also with Charlotte, in these two episodes in oranges, the new maze he is so focused on like, oh well, she's, she must be manipulating me, because that's how this is, that's what happens, that's what happens, that's what happens. And so you know she's, she's murdering people to manipulate me.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, Charlotte comes in and is just like I need some answers. He's just like All right, here you go, here, they all are, without any regard for what that's going to do to her and it's it's almost unforgivable. And the way that he treats maze, like the immediate assumptions all about him, and then at the end when he says to her like no, I can't take you back, I can't lose you, which for a second it's like Okay, he is acknowledging her importance to him and then immediately goes into not you too, because he's the center of the universe. That struck me. Other thing that struck me is also is maze also seems a little bit like that in some ways, in that that last scene where she's got not the murderer but the woman behind it, the mother of the of the bounty the former bounty former bounty who has died.
Speaker 3:She's got her, and Chloe is trying to talk her down and seems like she's getting through to her and says to her like Please talk to me, I'm here to help you. And maze goes, help me. Like your reasoning won't take me back and like throws the knife in the woman's foot, and that is another one. It's the fixation of like the only help, the only help that I want or need is to go home and so, like, instead of recognizing like there are other avenues, that it's this fixation of like this is the only thing that can, can be helpful to me. This is the only thing that anyone could ever do and know you can't, possibly because you're the reason he won't.
Speaker 3:And so I just I found that really really interesting, that that kind of realization and a little bit validating in that I recently diagnosed with ADHD and so you know, having this sudden like, oh, yeah, okay, like there's a reason why I kind of identify with these characters sometimes. And again, I'm very impressed with the show and the writers that they give these really interesting and compelling metaphors for mental health struggles. Not that ADHD is exactly mental health struggle, but, but you know, ways of navigating the world that are not necessarily typical, and so, like I, just I found that really, really interesting and gave me another way in to be able to forgive these characters for doing things that were kind of unforgivable, although I'm still pissed at Lucifer for these two episodes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I see why there's in the in the second one, the Angel San Bernardino. When he goes on like the, I mean the implication has been awake for a week. Yeah, and he's an angel.
Speaker 3:I will say that that montage is one of my favorite montages of the entire series. Like I like. I've watched it over and over again. Just the montage, even though it's like the painful is not the right word, but it's just like this doesn't look fun at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it is fun in a rewatch to see where the bones of the show bones came from, to see the origination of that, because that becomes a thing like it, yeah, yeah, pops up Like so, that was that was. That was kind of fun. What I was thinking of is that the once again praising Ellis's performance, like when he's in the precinct after having been awake theoretically for a week and he's just like, totally like strung out and acting weird. It was very believable and and actually in that moment I understood it.
Speaker 2:But I also was a little bit frustrated with Chloe. That she was so, I mean, clearly the man is not OK. Yeah, like, in so many ways he's not OK. And that she got as frustrated as she did, as quickly as she did Not, that she has never had a right to be frustrated. She totally does. And also, like, like I wanted her to be have I don't know, maybe two beats longer of compassion before she like threw her hands up because he was clearly there's something Agitated beyond, yeah, beyond his typical weirdness, you know. So, yeah, anyway, that that was just when you're talking about sort of forgiving, unforgivable. I don't think what Chloe did was unforgivable, but no, it did linger for me a little bit, yeah, yeah so within Orange is the new maze.
Speaker 3:One of the things I appreciated was getting a chance to see how maze works as a bounty hunter and the fact that she's actually very intelligent. I mean she's, she's. She's really quick to understand connections like the going to find the bondsman and realizing because he's got the the bowling pins and bowling pin in the pot In the Mm hmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that, oh, ok, so he and that one's right across the street, let's check there. So, like I, really I appreciated getting a chance to see that, particularly since we have not really seen her competence at anything other than violence and the goddess used to make fun of her as being incompetent, yeah, and not bright.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did in Mr and Mrs Mavikine Smith.
Speaker 1:I think we saw some of her right and says about you and as a tracker and et cetera.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 3:That's true. So I guess it's more it's. It's fun to get back to that, yeah. And then her response to him in Orange is the New Maze when he says I can't lose you, not you, not you too. And she was like I'm always going to be your consolation prize you. I feel like you get a little bit better understanding of why she's spinning out so much. Because she says nobody ever puts me first, because even Linda, who did put their friendship first, didn't do it until after she hadn't.
Speaker 2:You know, she put it second originally until it, until Maze was hurt by it. Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3:Even though Maze had said don't I really don't want you to do this to your point in a previous episode like what Linda and a Menadil had was real and deserved more than than this, because it wasn't like they were just having some fling, it wasn't like this was immediately after she and a Menadil broke up. It's, you know, this was a true emotional connection. That could have been a really important relationship. But at the same time, you know there is something to like. Nobody's putting me first For sure. Yeah, definitely, and that's that's got to be like. That's painful, that's really painful, that's I'm everyone's consolation prize. Why am I doing any of this? And I can't even go home and, you know, lick my wounds where I feel most comfortable.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, for sure. Poor me, poor Maze yeah.
Speaker 3:But then seeing Kane manipulate her at the very end, that felt like, OK, I'm really seeing how capable he is at manipulation, how some of this is just the acting Tom willing's acting and against learn German's acting doesn't. It doesn't feel like it, Like when he calls he's just like we'll have dinner and you're the dessert and or whatever it is that he says. I'm like thousands of years, that's the best line you come up with. Thousands.
Speaker 2:Well, English is not his first language.
Speaker 3:Thousands and so like. As a writer, I don't I don't envy the writer's job of creating dialogue. That's going to feel like oh yeah, I'd fall for that, right, right, because I don't know what it would be, but that ain't it. But he pinpoints and needles Maze's weakness exactly, and I think that that's that's easier to.
Speaker 2:He. Also, though, the writers made sure that we see that this was a manipulative. The slower fast, whatever you want. I'm in like that kind of flexibility as understanding, like writers make sure we know that that was calculated, not genuine, by having Maze say the same words, knowing that they're working together. So you know, yeah, the the pickup lines need help, but the other bits, I think actually were quite well crafted. Yeah, yeah, though the actual like they knew mom less so, like when finally she's going to say she loves him.
Speaker 2:And again, I don't know if this is the writing or wellings acting, but I'm not putting this on Lauren German this time, because when she was like hey, did I say something wrong? I just said that is exactly, really real. The way that a person of either gender, of any gender, excuse me, would react to that, like I was just about to tell you that I love you and now you're running away, like, of course, she would think that it was because she did something wrong, like wrong, that I thought, actually, germans kind of halted, staccato, kind of delivery, like really, really worked, wellings less so, like I didn't buy the angst or the change of heart or the I can't hurt her, like I just didn't. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'll say the, the, the moment when he's on the stairs and they, they, they have no sound, right? I think it's just music.
Speaker 2:But we see him like yelling and yeah, and a helmet, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that I felt that felt realistic, maybe because he didn't have to say anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I bought that. I think it's that I didn't buy and maybe and maybe this is me projecting what I know of what's to come backward, because when Lucifer confronts him, he says do what you must, I deserve it. So the implication of the writings that we're supposed to believe that Kane, marcus Pierce, is having real feelings for Chloe and can't stand that what he's doing is going to hurt her and that's why he's having this crisis, for whatever reason, I just don't buy it. Yeah, I buy that Kane would have the crisis, because this is what I've been searching for and now I don't wanna die, which I think is where we end up. And maybe I'm projecting that because I know that's where we're gonna end up. Sorry y'all spoilers, but I don't know. In this rewatch I just I wanted to believe it. I wanted to believe the like do what you must because I deserve it, but I just didn't.
Speaker 3:Some of it is. It puts too much pressure on Chloe as a person to be like to have multiple celestial fall in love with her, Like that flattens her as a character, Like she's no longer a unique person, she's just an object that like she's the. Macguffin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause part of what was so special about her relationship with Lucifer is like she was special to him. So to say that she's just special in the abstract and anyone would fall in love with her if they spent enough time with her.
Speaker 3:Yeah and so like, and I think it's not necessarily. That's not what the writers are trying to go for. They're I think they're more they're going for. He has let his boundaries down enough that he can see that this is a human being and recognize.
Speaker 1:And he has.
Speaker 3:Not that he has feelings for her, that he cares about her in a romantic sense, but just that he sees like I'm a human. She's a human, even though it feels like I'm the only one in the video game. She's not a non-player character.
Speaker 2:She's not a non-player character. Yes, yes, and I think that the writing actually suggests that they're like. I couldn't do that to her.
Speaker 3:Yeah not that I could, not that I could, but again, it's not that it's because I'm in love with her. It's because she's the only other real human being on the earth. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Like yeah, that's a nuance that I'm not sure Tom Welling conveyed.
Speaker 3:I'll give you that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that wild turkey yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and it's frustrating because I feel like we do get like we do get the real pathos when the Toms are acting off of each other and we get it between Pierce and Mays and not the pathos, but we get like he feels like a fully developed evil character when he's manipulating Mays. It's just that we're pushing on this love triangle. That just doesn't work and I don't know if it would work if we had someone of Tom Ellis' caliber.
Speaker 2:In that role.
Speaker 1:In that role, that's an interesting hypothetical yeah.
Speaker 3:I think so we could have Tom Ellis play every character.
Speaker 2:That's some major editing, but that would be pretty cool. So I'm thinking about the scene, though, when I don't remember how Lucifer realizes what's happening, but he's like rushing, like he's driving to intercept and they do the split screen with Ellis in the convertible and then the two of them right Like driving or whatever. It was interesting that they juxtaposed that in that way, because in those two juxtaposed scenes Lucifer just looks well to your point about the ADHD like absolutely obsessed and driven and a little bit like off his rocker. Yeah, a little scary almost.
Speaker 2:A little bit yeah, and Welling is as charming as he's able to be, I think in the same scene, and so there's an interesting sort of juxtaposition with this, like wildness out of Lucifer, which is actually driven by genuine affection and concern, and this charm literally juxtaposed, which is driven by self-serving.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and really like complete disregard in some ways for Chloe. So I thought that was a really like just as a viewer kind of taking it in. I thought that which they don't do that very often. Like that is not a cinematic style of this show I don't know if it was a different director or what but sort of that split screen effect. We don't get that very often in Lucifer, so it stood out to me that we had it here. Yeah.
Speaker 3:In terms of the performance, I want to point out Leslie Anne Brandt's performance when she reveals things to Lucifer is like genuinely chilling Totally.
Speaker 2:It was my idea. Yeah, like in his space, like that, mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's it again, where it feels like this is almost something you can't come back from.
Speaker 2:you know this level of manipulation, though to your point from our last episode that you gleaned from the AV Club review of the previous episode. It's like Lucifer and May's pummel one another. Yes, they do it literally, physically, and they do it emotionally, and have been from the point. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah so. I mean just in terms of the like not coming back from it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, and there comes a point I think it's in later seasons where May says to him like you're not still mad about that time I betrayed you? And he's like what, am I a human? No, of course not. Yeah, so yeah, it's more that Chloe is wrapped up in the net. That's kind of awful. Yeah, may's is angry at Chloe too and actually says to Pierce like you know, respect, that's really gonna hurt her. Wow, and that just feels so unfair because Chloe hasn't done anything wrong, mm-mm. But May's is.
Speaker 2:She's wrapped up in her own pain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, these are fun episodes that are also hard to watch, in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean even the like. So we already said I totally believe the wait. Wait, did I say something wrong? And then the next scene that you see her when Lucifer knocks on the door like a crazy person. I gotta stop saying that, I apologize. Lucifer knocks on the door in a very insistent and in a way that is not socially acceptable and Trixie opens the door and just opens it wide so he can see her. The pathos of having the 10-year-old like taking care of her mom, in that way I mean, and like German's, just sort of sitting there looking, I don't know, morose, but the real pathos I mean kudos to the writers on that by having the child just be like look. You know that actually, I found very powerful that was very powerful.
Speaker 2:And another moment of like. Screw Lucifer for like, come on, like his impulse is not to go comfort her but to go confront Pierce, which feels a little effed up. Yeah, like she was clearly hurting so much he didn't even like, he didn't even greet her. Yeah, he just turned around to go confront Pierce, which is in line with I'm the Punisher, but is not in line with the redemption arc that we've been given for him, which is genuine affection and care for this human being who's hurting.
Speaker 3:But that also gets to his single-mindedness. Yeah, yes, because he was going there to stop Pierce from hurting her. Right, pierce had already hurt her, and so he was, so I got to know, and he was in that sort of sleep, deprived wildness, wild state yeah. And that's. It's a shame, because you know like tricks he could have used an adult, because I can't how upsetting, like the last time she and her mother had spoken she's like oh, is he why you've been so happy lately?
Speaker 3:And then she comes home from a birthday party and her mom is like I'm sure had dried her tears by then. Right, you know, because she was like I gotta be Because that's the kind of gal, she is An adult but, you know, was not capable of answering the door, you know, yeah. So, yeah, it's painful. I do want to say how did Marcus explain the loss of his tattoo to Chloe?
Speaker 2:She must not. I mean, I guess he wore longer, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Are they never nudes when they have sex?
Speaker 2:Oh right, Because they clearly are doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like the only times we see anything about it, there's like some afterglow where they're both fully dressed and they're at work, so maybe they're just you know like yeah, maybe they are fully clothed when they're doing it.
Speaker 2:Just get the relevant bits uncovered, I mean when you're doing it, in the evidence locker.
Speaker 3:That I understand, but then they're, you know, like they're, like you know he's like oh, this is really great. And she's like this is this is crap.
Speaker 2:Crap, they're both fully dressed.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I mean maybe because they're like-.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe he just said.
Speaker 1:I had it lasered off.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, I know it's not it's not a big deal. I mean she's managed to like gloss over the fact that she's partners with the devil for two years.
Speaker 3:So that is more like okay, he's delusional. This is something that he's delusional.
Speaker 2:Yes, but his super human strength she has seen on multiple occasions, true From the very beginning.
Speaker 3:It's like the whether or not a tattoo is there is a little more like-.
Speaker 2:Really, then, like bending a shotgun, really Like laser tattoo or whatever. Well, there's a thing, okay, true, like I mean I know, and she's seen him naked. It's not like he's, you know, like the rock or something. At least not in these seasons. He's not doing the rock jobs in.
Speaker 3:True, true, okay, I will give you that.
Speaker 2:So, speaking of super human strength, we've talked before about how that seems a little inconsistent, like Winklow is around, so here was another one in the yes, he still has it column, and I thought that was actually really funny, like that was a cute line when he was like I've always wanted to do that, oh, done that before. That was pretty funny. There were a couple of, though there was one inconsistency that I noted, which I guess I could keep for fluff but now I've started so I'm just going to do it which is that they either didn't remember or didn't care that Lucifer names Gabriel's pronouns as he, him.
Speaker 3:I noticed that, but when we meet Gabriel.
Speaker 1:Gabriel's his sister Very much a woman.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, that bothered me too, which you know like it's.
Speaker 2:It's like they maybe were like whatever. It was 30 seconds, it's fine, just keep going. Yeah, yeah, but I noticed that.
Speaker 3:I did too. Yeah, so I do want to take a moment to talk about Charlotte. Well, for one thing, the scene where Lucifer reveals his wings to her is that's redemptive on Lucifer's part with how horribly he treated her before and where he's like OK, we'll make this right in the only way possible. And then props to Tricia Hulfer for like nailing her facial expression of like the awe of what she's seeing and the joy of being like. My greatest fear is not true and you know, that's conversation for another time, if we ever have it of why her greatest fear is that she's crazy. Like what is that saying? What does that mean? Why is that such a terrifying thing for?
Speaker 2:her. I have to say it totally makes sense with the profile of the character that they this like hard driving, very successful, very smart, in control. I mean like being in control is who she is. Charlotte, is Charlotte Richards' comfortable place, Like that is her comfort zone, and so a mental health issue that would steal time and have her not in control. I mean, to me it's very clearly the lack of control. The stigma around mental health, sure, but specifically with this character profile it's the lack of control that is so terrifying. I think yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that definitely. That definitely makes sense. Sorry, I totally interrupted you. You were saying no, no, no, no, I like, I just I so appreciate the way that that she played that Like you believed she was actually looking at like yeah Wings, and it wasn't just CGI. I do want to point out when she has that jeweler in her office I don't know if you noticed, but it's the same jeweler that they went and interviewed in the my Brother's Keeper, oh, really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I was like nice. I mean like I wonder if it's just they had, you know, that actor on speed dial or you know that's pretty cool. But it was, it was pretty nice, it was, it was pretty cool that they did not notice that. So but that that. The other aspect that's also really interesting is her despair at the like. The minute I thought that there was a loophole, I went back to my old ways and that's just human, that's just being human and you know it's. It's completely comprehensible why she, she, she did that. I mean, it would have been very difficult for her to try to be a different person and her attempts were based in fear.
Speaker 3:Mm hmm, not. In general. It was not an intrinsic motivation, right, which is not going to create a real change, right?
Speaker 2:Although that her telling the truth Everyone was amazing and you actually, you're pretty great, you're pretty great. Actually, stop talking about your kids.
Speaker 3:Ella was the Greek course, again Totally with the, although maybe I should save this for fluff. But when she's she's like get it Decker, because the wall is shared with the lab, I'm like, how did you know that was Decker and anyway. And then like when she's just like how are you doing? Player, and like Lucifer is so befuddled he's like looking back and forth and like I know something's going on, but what she's suggesting is something the detective would never do, so I don't know what's going on. I also when Chloe's realizing her double on time, lucifer, when she, he was here, is going to be, you know, on every case now. And she's like we just came to, we just drove together. Yeah, now you've got DNA on your shirt. What I did, what? Oh, that's pretty funny, that was pretty good, yeah, so, oh, anyway, I do want to get back to Charlotte, but the, the, the conversation with the Menendale, where he's like you know, logistically that ain't happening, not even like, even if we could, we wouldn't.
Speaker 2:And the, the pathos of her real life, like I am going to hell yeah.
Speaker 3:And there are no shortcuts, and that's really overwhelming and that, I feel like, is what Linda was trying to protect her from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because the like, getting the validation that's her missing time. It's missing for a very good reason. Missing for a good reason and that there's nothing, she's not losing control of her own faculties was one aspect of her. I can't think of the word I want, but I'm upset of her struggles. That was only one aspect. Another aspect is the realization that she's got to change as a person and not knowing how to, and that's understandable and relatable and really tough yeah.
Speaker 2:So Well, I feel like maybe we both already gave our fluff, things. Oh no, no, no, oh, I have some good ones I have saved one. I think it is time, and now is the time in Lightbringers, when we share fluff.
Speaker 1:For my Gen Xers out there.
Speaker 2:That's for my Gen Xers out there.
Speaker 3:On sprockets, On sprockets. Ok, so I was. I was watching these in my office and my spouse wandered in, and it was during. Orange is the New Maze when Lucifer and Chloe are leaving the conference room not the conference room, the interrogation room and he starts grabbing things. You're like.
Speaker 3:OK, we got to find the right thing, and so he grabs a stapler and he grabs a hoagie out of the hands of a like nameless uniformed cop and my spouse, who has made it clear he does not like Lucifer, which it's good of you that you haven't divorced him yet.
Speaker 3:I know he needs to know. So the point where he was, he was saying this and I was just like I don't talk about you or say your name or anything like that, but I'm going to out you and he said you wouldn't, so anyway. So Lucifer grabs the sandwich and my spouse goes. That isn't realistic and I thought he was going to be on something. He's just like that cop would not be OK with him just taking his sandwich. He just turns and walks away. He's armed, he's an armed police officer, and then what does he do with the sandwich? It disappears in between that. And when he's talking to Charlotte, what happened to the sandwich? He's like you need to tell them that your spouse, who is a fan of sandwiches, has a problem with that plot point.
Speaker 3:It is a plot hole. That does go like yeah, but then he just wanders away and like to be fair to my spouse, most people would be like hey, give me that I was eating that. Yes, oh, that's funny, but yeah, so. So that was, that was one piece of fluff. And then the other was I just an appreciation fluff for Lucifer's French made costume? Oh, my gosh. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:You know when you're trying to stand up you have a light the bad word in rough. The French made costume Like and so in my head I was just like. So you know, on the nights when you're feeling sleepy but you got to stay up, you go get your French made costume and tricycle. Like you do Clean, you clean the counters and so, like the cleaning, I kind of understand the putting together the IKEA bookshelf. I do not understand, because those don't go together well when you're well caffeinated and fully rested.
Speaker 2:Speak to yourself. I can put an IKEA cabinet together at three in the morning.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't know, but I can do it when I'm awake and fully caffeinated. I cannot do it when I'm waking, fully caffeinated. I just, I have a low frustration tolerance, and so you know anything that raises the frustration tolerance which is already like damn you, IKEA and your flat pack, I mean. Then then like, of course, you also invite the underground fight club into your penthouse Underground, engage in some light SNM, or you get a large screen TV and mainline bones. That's the only one that I could actually see myself doing.
Speaker 2:It was interesting that he didn't have a TV until he had to stay out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, oh, one other. I remember the other fluff I wanted to mention. It's the one that I texted you. We have a large number of black Jews in Lucifer's, los Angeles, because the guy the rehab center's name was Phil Goldstein, and we come to find him and he's a black dude with the last name Goldstein, and I don't. Goldberg Greenberg, I think was the name of, was Goldberg, wasn't it? Yeah, it was Ryan Goldberg Greenberg who was the agent, definitely like a Meshpacha name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, and I wonder I wonder if that's like the writers are like putting in these Jewish names and then want to avoid antisemitism. So cast black dudes, yeah. Instead of Jewish white, jewish looking dudes, I should specify Ashkenazi looking I don't know Like. I wonder if there's a little bit of like hedging their bets there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, well, and it's, it's something where I don't know how many non Jews would clock these names as, like that, that's, that's a Jewish name, right, right, I think, because it's sadly the antisemites will true true. I just remember there was an old Northern Exposure episode where Joel was trying to tell I cannot remember her name but his the, the pilot. No, no, no, no, the, the native woman who was like his, not second.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:Marilyn, marilyn. He was trying to tell her how you know that a name, the last name, is Jewish, and he's like well, if it ends in Berg, or if it ends in, you know, no, or Stein, or yeah, and so, so easily if it ends in Nura, and she's like, oh, it's like Kevin Costner is like no, a fat Nura, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's sort of like precious metal plus like Steen Stein Berg, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I just I found that really interesting. And then I was also like well, it's sad that there's a, you know, a larger number of black Jews in the the Los Angeles of Lucifer, although you know there is a large number of Jewish people in Los Angeles. So you, know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it would make sense because there's a I mean Jews of color somewhere between 12 and 20% of the Jewish population. So many.
Speaker 3:I did not know that that is fascinating, so but I hate that both of the times that I have clocked it they've been kind of pieces of shit. Yeah, yeah, like can we get a hero? Yeah, is it Jew of color? That would be nice.
Speaker 2:So I mean Phil was less, he like Ryan was like actually the murderer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was a villain, yeah, he was a.
Speaker 2:He was the villain. Yeah, this guy was just kind of like kind of just kind of a schmuck, yeah, not like evil.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, not like not a villain, but still kind of, kind of a schmuck, like I don't want my wife to know. This gets my wife off my back, for you know, sleeping with prostitutes, and it's just like yeah, brody. So anyway, phil Goldstein, to each wife better, yeah.
Speaker 1:She's a rich book.
Speaker 3:Those are my fluffs and I've got. I got a call in like six minutes that I should get to.
Speaker 2:Well, we better go, then we better go, because we have over thunk it, I'll see you next week. We have over thunk it.
Speaker 3:We have, go us go, yes, and and you know what, go my spouse, who, again, I'm not going to name because I don't want to out him and not out him, but you know, just like it would be hard to figure it out.
Speaker 2:But yes, that's that good point about the sandwich.
Speaker 3:Yes, but he made an excellent point about the sandwich way to go, brother in law. He made me laugh because I thought he was going to be like that doesn't make sense. I'm solving devil, which you know. I know he's already knows that. But I thought he was going to like go for the jugular with something that he felt was unrealistic, but and he did. But you know, the jugular of a hoagie.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll see you next week. You next week.
Speaker 1:Our theme song is Ferrell Angel Waltz by Kevin MacLeod from Incompetentcom, Licensed under Creative Commons by attribution 4.0 license. Visit the show notes for the URL. I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narrakeepcom. Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, Netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.