“Save Lucifer” and “Who’s da New King of Hell?” allow the Guy Girls to overthink everything from acting vs. directorial choices, to the nature of sin and guilt, to the possibility of a “happy ending” for an immortal being in love with an all-too-human one.
Tracie couldn’t wait to start the episode with her frustrations with Lauren German’s delivery of the emotional range required for Chloe’s (good, not great) dialogue, and we also spend significant time pondering the in-universe veracity of souls going to Hell immediately post-confession. We wonder over the seeming paucity of therapists in Los Angeles (is Linda really the only one?), and Emily is really into Kevin Alejandro’s beatboxing.
These two episodes were meant to be the final of the series when they were produced. Have a listen to the Guy Girls’ overthinking of whether or not they stuck the landing.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
“Save Lucifer” and “Who’s da New King of Hell?” allow the Guy Girls to overthink everything from acting vs. directorial choices, to the nature of sin and guilt, to the possibility of a “happy ending” for an immortal being in love with an all-too-human one.
Tracie couldn’t wait to start the episode with her frustrations with Lauren German’s delivery of the emotional range required for Chloe’s (good, not great) dialogue, and we also spend significant time pondering the in-universe veracity of souls going to Hell immediately post-confession. We wonder over the seeming paucity of therapists in Los Angeles (is Linda really the only one?), and Emily is really into Kevin Alejandro’s beatboxing.
These two episodes were meant to be the final of the series when they were produced. Have a listen to the Guy Girls’ overthinking of whether or not they stuck the landing.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy here. This is embarrassing. In this episode that you're about to listen to, I go off on a tangent about Eve's name and I got it wrong. Eve's name, the biblical Eve, was Chava, and it says in the text she's called that because she's the mother of all living, which would be Chaya, and the two words must be related. But it wasn't Chaya, so my apologies for leading you astray. However, my story about the misplaced vowel on the pronoun remains. Is it why she's called Eve in English? Maybe it's my headcanon as to why. Anyway, I hope you'll forgive me. Enjoy this episode. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer. For the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 1:Hey there, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken. She does not use Iphone, I don't and I'm here with my sister, tracy Guy-Dekker she does use Iphone, it's true. And together we are Lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show. And, yeah, we're overthinking it. So today we're gonna be overthinking episodes 409 and 410. Save Lucifer and who's the new king of hell. I know it's like so many things. So the place I want to start which maybe is not the best starting place, I'm gonna start there anyway is near the end of that episode, when Lucifer is just fully transforming into his most devil-y, monstrous devil self in the penthouse and he's like basically having a meltdown and what brings him back is that Chloe is like I'm still here, I'm not in a million pieces and you need to forgive yourself and like I have to say that scene, that one scene in the penthouse, is the reason I don't like the one that's Chloe's after. It is that scene specifically.
Speaker 1:I think the writing is good, but not great, at least her dialogue. But her delivery I just didn't buy it, like the way she keeps, like it's not even that I think she wouldn't be looking away because it's hard to look at. But she keeps looking up, like, are you looking to God for help? Are you like, frustrated and exasperated, like that's what I do, like when my kids, when my kid won't put her shoes on and it's time to leave, I'm like, oh, look up Right. Like I just like none of it. I bought none of it. None of it. I bought none of it. And, like I said, the writing is I think it's good, but not great. Like the line that she has to deliver. Like you're always so mad that people blame you for stuff. The devil made me do it and all that. Like I don't think that was well written. Like I think they could have polished that better because it didn't. Well, the sentiment is good, it's just the sentiment.
Speaker 1:The sentiment is good, the actual words though felt more like written than spoken words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the way she says the devil made me do it. Like it looks like written I think I would buy that, but like spoken, it just didn't work. And then she just didn't deliver it in a way that I believed. Like that specific scene is when, like I watched the first time I watched this, I was like, oh, she's blowing it, she's just perfect moment between these two people. I love it. Oh my. Oh, that makes me laugh. Sorry, that was not the right place to start, but that is my primary reaction to save Lizard, honestly.
Speaker 1:Well, it puts into sharp contrast how tough it is for German, I think, to do what other actors do really well, which is like that seamless blend of comedy and drama. So I'm thinking like May's in these two episodes, like she does a lot with like her face and comedic timing, like when Eve is like what do you think Is this more sexy, or is this more sexy? And you can tell she's going like oh damn, I'm gonna die, my mouth is dry, I cannot talk, and it's like it's very funny. But at the same time we also see her like lose her temper at Eve. We see her be totally vulnerable with the song and so like she's got that full spectrum, whereas I feel like Lauren German can handle like aspects of the comedy really really well. But that dramatic scene where it needs to come from, like this deep place, we don't really see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause even in the second one, in Huda Nuken, hell, that scene on the balcony that should just like tug at my heart, strings, like please, I just thought you know what if she didn't, if they, if they'd had her, say like I love you, and he has that like heartbroken smile like for, like, oh my God, how does he do that with his face? And like, why do I want to lick him Like that? Anyway, if she didn't repeat herself, if she didn't look, please, I love you the second time, I think I would. I would be more like if she'd just let it sit, but Anyway, yeah, so I'm sure she's a very nice woman. Learn German I don't want to, and you know, nobody does hard-boiled better than she does that like tough as nails. Like Hell will freeze over before I sleep with you. Like yeah. I bought that way back in season one.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think, for whatever reason, this particular emotional range just Doesn't, she isn't, she isn't conveying it. So it reminds me of Mark Hamill in the original Star Wars trilogy, because when he was hired to play Luke Skywalker For the 1977 Star Wars, he was a young man playing a young man and they're like he you bought it, you bought that he was the farm boy and then by the time you get to return of the Jedi, he's supposed to be like this, more seasoned, you know Mm-hmm, and it's harder, like you just don't really see it from our camel. And the thing is he's a phenomenal actor, like he's really good His voice acting as the Joker for the Batman animated series is it's supposed to be like Up there with Heath Ledger is one of the best jokers ever done. So I have no doubt that he's capable. It's just that I think sometimes the role grows in a way that the actor isn't Mm-hmm, and I think that's that's what happened with Chloe and Lauren German and I think German actually grows into it a little bit in season six.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of that similar emotional range in season six that I think she she gets there, at least gets closer. For me, you know for me as a viewer, but at this moment, like I had a hard time even staying in Mm-hmm, like staying in the world building of the LA of Lucifer, because I was so kind of like distracted by her. Well, and it doesn't help that she's she's up against Tom Ellis, who is the phenomenally gifted actor. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that it would be. It would feel less jarring if she had a different co-star, right? Oh yeah, so I think that's probably true, because part of his genius is the subtlety and the Nonverbal acting that he does and I don't think she has any of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or very little, yeah, yeah, just not the subtle version of it, like it's like the difference between someone who's a stage actor and someone who does film. You know, like there's there's plenty of nonverbal you do in stage acting but you got Play it to the cheap seats. So right, right, right, so, yeah, yeah. So I'd like to talk a little bit about the story, the murder mystery in save Lucifer. I Felt I was, I really felt for the murderer, even though at the same time I was like I was like why, why am I so sympathetic to this woman which he's awful, I mean, she's really awful.
Speaker 1:Now, some of it is, I think, just the the idea of being overshadowed by older siblings Is Sorry, overshadowed by a sibling, like I'm sure you have felt that way in perverse, um, and there's when and this, this you have not experienced, but when you are the younger sibling, you are always the younger sibling, even once you're an adult, like I, I have never been bat mitzvahd, in part because, well, neither of us are bat mitzvahd at the normal time, you were 26. So, right, when you were bat mitzvahd, you decided you want to do it as an adult and I would have been interested. But at your reception, every single person who has a single drop of blood in common with us said to me so when are you gonna be bat mitzvahd? Are you gonna be next? Never now, thanks, thanks so much. So I'm sympathetic, and particularly God it would be hard to go into the same business With, I think to the our writers gave it.
Speaker 1:Gave us that too, because I'm the whole like. The whole like I hate myself thing, since self-hatred is the light motif of this episode and the one before it. In the scene where we're sitting it. We're sitting in the penthouse and the murderer is talking about having done it and she talks about. She's talking about how she fucks everything up, how she she ruins everything she touches and it's so bad that she even was willing to like In her confession. It is one of someone who is completely judging themselves.
Speaker 1:And so I think, that sets us up to be sympathetic because it is such a Frequent, if not universal, experience. Yeah, and, and then, and then to have Lucifer out on the balcony like, yeah, you should, yeah, you should, stay far away from everyone who you care about, and so like, yeah, and so like, oh gosh, yeah, what's interesting is her specific crime that she was trying to cover up, that that she ended up killing her sister over, was embezzling and then losing all the money. And In part because of what I do for a living, you know I write about money. I have zero compassion for that, and yeah, and so that's one of the things that I found interesting is, like, even though I'm just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:No no no, no, and we're back. So the last thing I heard before you disappeared and I Materialized in a new room was oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. So the fact that they were able to make me sympathize with someone who Committed actions that I find just reprehensible on every level not that Everyone doesn't find embezzling and and making really bad investment decisions like reprehensible I'm not saying that, that's not true it's just that, in the same way that you know a writer takes plagiarism more seriously you know it's a particular pet peeve of yours. Yes To to flip, oh, whatever, but yeah, but yeah, I'm thinking about it. Yes, but it also I it.
Speaker 1:It spoke to her desperation to prove to her sisters and herself that she wasn't a Screw up. And so the fact and like, when you are feeling that kind of desperation, you are so much more likely to take the really big bad risks Because, like, okay, I gotta pull this off, and so you take the the bigger risk, and then you take the even the bigger risk to try to fix the last risk and yeah, and just it keeps getting worse and worse and worse, and so I just am very sympathetic to that and like the moment when Lucifer says, like you should have stayed away from anyone you love, because you do ruin everything you touch.
Speaker 1:I was just like, oh man, I hope there's a therapist at the prison. It's going to be Linda, because she's the only.
Speaker 1:Therapist in Los Angeles. I'm so glad that Dan is getting help and also that's a really big city. Yeah, there are millions of people in that city and honestly, at this point it's a conflict of interest. I mean, like the number of yeah, no, she no. I mean I'm not saying she's not good cause she fixed him in like less than 10 minutes, I mean less than three minutes Cause she like, clearly he just needed to talk to her, boom, and she's, he's fixed cause he's there to take her to the hospital. He's fine by the next. He's fixed. Yeah, only, only Lucifer is not fixed. Oh man, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of like, I'd like to talk about like the, the things about that they show about childbirth on TV that drive me nuts now that I've been through it, although there are some aspects like where she's like no, they're just Braxton Hicks contractions. And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I appreciate that, that's a, you know. And then her, her, like he's not due for a few weeks, you know, it's just Braxton Hicks contractions. What I appreciated about the, the Braxton Hicks and all of that, is so my son was a week early. I had taken the due date as a contract, so when I'm I'm having Braxton Hicks exactly eight days before my due date. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, this is too early. I was in denial the entire day, so that felt realistic to me. But you know, like my water just broke, he got to get me the hospital. Now, no, with my second my water broke at like five in the morning and he came at 13 minutes to midnight. So you got time.
Speaker 1:So those are, those are my, my bird's eye view or expert view, I guess, of baby stuff. Then the fact that baby Charlie and this is of course he is is a three month old infant. That is not a newborn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it's the same, but it's fine, that's what they have to do. Yeah, and then he's sad that they got an actual human infant in the room. Yeah, and then you know, the majority of the time that Eve is carrying him, it's it's just a bundle of blankets. I know, I know it's fine, so, but I would love for there to be at least one shot of an actual newborn Because, like, otherwise, you get people who are like what's wrong with this baby when they have a baby, because it doesn't look like the ones on TV. This is like it's not done yet it's all smoochy, smoochy and gross. Yeah, does it ever stop being all like like folded? Is it like my hair? When I pull it out of my ponytail it's going to have a little ridge forever. So you watch, so I actually let's.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about speaking of like acting and stuff like that. When a menadil they give the suggestion that he may be the one who have who has abducted Charlie and taken him to the Silver City and like he actually was even thinking about it up until like that night, which is like that's unforgivable. Well, and I think thinking is forgivable, ok, thinking is. So the fact that you didn't talk about it with Linda I thought about running away, yeah, but not with. And I talked about it with myself, yes, with, all right. So the point of he was annoyed when she said she'd hired a night nurse, no, that's where it gets into the like, oh, this is going to mess up my plans, like there's thinking about it and there's planning. So, anyway, and yeah, I've had that. Like you know, I've gone out for for an errand and been like what if I just kept going? I just keep trying to just go, let's see where I get. Yeah, late stage. Capitalism is fun.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the fact that drummers and squee nobody likes squee came up with this plan Like kind of counteracts Lucifer's it definitely contradicts Lucifer's. They're not very smart, yeah, especially because they, I mean like. So here's a question for you, right, like when the souls of the dead inhabit recently deceased bodies, they don't remember, they only remember that what they, their own lives. They don't remember the life of the person whose body it is. But maybe demons are more like zombies and can kind of access some of the memories. Because how do you even know about the vile? Or to look for it in the safe? That's a good question, because I mean, Kinley knew about the vile. I don't know that you would know. Well.
Speaker 1:Kinley, yeah, kinley. Well, he talked a lot. He said Dromo studied these. Spoke a lot and time expands, so 30 seconds is like 30 years, so yeah maybe, maybe, maybe they got that from Kinley, maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that vile is not the size of a plum. No, there's nothing plum like about that vile. No, no, the other. The other thing about Dromo's and Squee like Dromo's like seemingly immediately like got rid of the corrections off like onesie and like put on cool biker clothes, but Squee just wore the Montaniers dress. Maybe that was the easiest thing to find. I mean like I mean I guess they did end up using the confessional as a way to kill more people, so it would help to have him continue to dress as a priest. I don't know. Ok, I mean presumably they also must have killed. Like where are the people who normally go to that church or who work there, or who work there? How does nobody notice that like I'm going to go to confession, like never come back again, I know, like it wasn't like an abandoned church, like that was a beautiful, well-kept, active church that has fresh waiters in line. The other thing about it is like if you go to hell because you torture yourself, but presumably the folks who've just stepped out of confession believe themselves too big cleansed, like I don't know. It feels like a little bit of commentary on, not the power of confession, because I feel like that is. I'm going to set that aside, I'm just going to put that on the shelf for now, but even just like what the actual parishioner believes about the confession, because I would think that stepping out of the confessional booth for a truly devout Catholic would be the best time to die to guarantee that you go up, if you you know the Catholics who actually believe the whole cosmology and the way that sin works. Yeah, yeah, but that's I mean I'm thinking of.
Speaker 1:There's an episode of 30 Rock where Tracy is like I need to be, I need to find a religion. And Liz Lemon says to him like something really good, like Judaism or just like Unitarian, but anyway. So he's going around to ask me everyone. And so it's the episode where Jack Donoghie's brother is there. He's like, oh, you should be an Irish Catholic like me, and what's great is you go to the confessional and everything's washed away. And then so he started like, oh, jack, I'm going to be to Alec Baldwin, I'm going to be an Irish Catholic. He's like, oh, but you don't understand the constant guilt, and he starts pretend, flogging himself.
Speaker 1:And so I'm thinking like there is that sense of like even when you are, when the confessional has cleansed you of sin and you have put it elsewhere there, is that still, that sense of personal failure at all times. The way that when Kinley realizes who Eve is, he's like, ah, the first sinner. That sense of and some of this just doesn't make sense to me, because this is not part of our religious tradition, but that we are all sinners and believing that deep in your bones. That I imagine Right and the way to deal with it is through confession. Yes, but even when you do that, does anyone ever really feel like? I mean, I don't know how to feel.
Speaker 1:I've never been a confession, but it's not understanding that that is. I mean. That's why I like that's supposed to be, and the friends of mine who are Catholic who have talked about going to confession, they talk about it being like a psychic weight. You're able to put all of these worries outside of yourself and walk out without them, which is kind of In my mind. In the world of Lucifer that our showrunners have created, it's that psychic weight that drags you down to hell, anyway, unless you're a truly horrible person, right, right, but that's our head cannon. That's not necessarily from the show. I feel like we've spent kind of a long time on this and we got to go, so I want to like Well, I've got, I pushed my next step. You have a little time. Yeah, I've got time. So, okay, cool, and that's a really good point. If they you know what? Maybe he hadn't finished confessing Because that's all we see. Is the guy I mean? He's even leaving, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway, because if they get them on the way in, that seems like, yeah, that's ideal. Actually, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. Actually, yeah, because they thought they'd need to go to confession. So if they got them on the way in, that actually wouldn't make a lot of sense. All right, I would like to overthink the huge number of bodies at the Mayan so many and that's like it was like 50 or 60 at least. Yeah, and like, and they've all been murdered, right? I mean, like there's no reason. Her gun was discharged like 10 times without a sentence. Oh, yeah, like, why would that not come back on Chloe?
Speaker 1:Oh, I totally didn't even think about that I assumed it was her service weapon. Yeah, and then, and then the spike in her eye. That was so realistic, oh my God. Yeah, yeah, that also speaking of the sheer number, that's another moment. That was I'm not even going to say it was overacted, it just was weird. She comes in to tell him that she loves him Because she's seen Charlie. She knows everything's okay theoretically, so she knows everything's okay.
Speaker 1:So she comes in and she wants to explain to him, and then all the extra demon zombies come up and sort of pull her away and she's in this freeze frame like Like for like, and like it's not a freeze frame. She's still blinking and like, reaching for him and saying his name, but like, yeah, you'd be fine, yeah, you'd be fine. Yes, this is the same hardboiled cop that just put 10 bullets into a zombie out in the alley. She'd be like elbow in and like punching and kicking, bashing him in the balls. Like, yeah, she would not just be like yeah, yeah, that though I'm going to tell. Look, I don't think that was Larn German's decision, I think that was the director. I agree, I think that was directorial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the director's like oh, this is going to make a perfect like freeze frame, like if you'd like to keep watching, or something. Yeah, yeah, I agree I think that was directorial, but it was a weird choice. Yeah, because not only is she freeze frame, but the zombie demons who are holding her back are also. Yeah, they'd be attacking her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like they're just holding her while she's reaching for Like what the Come on y'all? Yeah, Doesn't mean anything, she's actually moving pictures, they move. Edward Mybridge did not record that horse-drawer running for you to do this, Right. So I do want to talk about real quick, if we can do it without it being too loud Ella and her return to faith. So again, speaking of someone who can do comedy and drama, like that scene where she says you know what? It's not God's job to keep bad things from happening, it's God's job to help us bear it. Bear it yeah, which feels like a very post-Showa Jewish kind of attitude, frankly. Yeah, yeah, Interesting, because I'm curious as to how that fits into Christian and Catholic doctrine. Yeah, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I accidentally read a Christian mystery kind of thing. That was Like I picked it up not realizing that's what it was. I just found it at the library and I was like I read it. I was like, oh, this is not for me, this was not written for me. It's about a young woman who goes missing and you end up finding your diary and throughout she's like I know everything will be okay because of faith in Christ and everything wasn't. She ends up murdered but her infant daughter is saved and everything's okay there and all of that, and presumably she goes to heaven. And I'm just like I don't get it. I don't get Like what? Yeah, and I think that's Ella's proclamation of faith in these two episodes is much more aligned with my Jewish theology. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so and I don't really have a sense of what the expectation is for, like the doctrine and belief system. So, hey, friends, if you're watching, erica, if you're watching, can you talk to me about this? My friend Erica is a priest and so she would know she's not a Catholic priest but so she would be able to talk to us, that kind of was, without saying that, well, she figured I'd mention that, so and that's yeah. I found that really really interesting that she, like she, it happens right after she corrects herself when she's like to let them know that we're praying for them and realizing, like this, like garment that I've always worn, I'm trying to get back into, you know, like it's comfortable, yeah, I mean, well, it is a relationship and she says she misses God. So I think that's yeah, I actually think that that's that resonated.
Speaker 1:That means that's to me yeah, that was a relationship that she was. Yeah, but I also am like I got annoyed a little bit at the idea that she's that God can't handle her anger. So, although she wasn't talking about she, was saying like I was so angry at the big guy and for letting this happen and that I miss him. So, like, okay, so, thinking of it as a relationship, she distanced herself because she was angry, which I'm like okay, that's all makes sense. But then, like the way that she talked about her anger at God, I felt like, well, god can take it. I wasn't left with a feeling that God couldn't take it, I was left with it.
Speaker 1:She had cut off communication because of her anger, as opposed to God can't handle it, and God left. She was like done with you, that's true, that's true. And she put her necklace in the drawer. Yeah, so Okay, fair, fair. So I mean, oh, brain fart, oh self actualization, oh, yes, and he's really like I'm not sure I even realized at the first, however many times I've watched these two episodes he's got big ass monster that style wings in these two episodes.
Speaker 1:But then when, once he has decided he has to go back to hell to protect the people that he loves, he has angel wings again, angel wings again. Yeah, yeah, and I didn't make the connection of the shift until this go round watching it to prepare for today with you, but I thought that was really really nice. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That scene. Well, okay, that last scene between him and Chloe on the balcony. As you said, it's not quite as satisfying as it could be with a different actress, I think. But his acting is amazing. Like how lost he looks like as he's on the balcony knowing he's about to say goodbye to her forever. How do you like stand there with tears like welling but not falling? Not falling, yeah, I do that, I don't know, like on command, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:And then I and partially because there was a long time between season four and when season five came out but that image of him on top of that lonely throne, even though it makes no logistical sense, I mean like obviously he can fly up to it, but like what's the point? But still, imagery wise, it is phenomenal, it's gorgeous. And the same way that he fixes his cuff lengths like he always did, and that like that's a like so much is said in that little gesture that he has done so many times. And yeah, it's haunting and I don't, I don't anyway, like I know there are people who are like you know, season six terrible, blah, blah, they hated it. There are in another universe where there wasn't a renewal after season four. I feel like that could have been a very, very satisfying ending, even though it is not in any way emotionally satisfied. It's not like, yeah, it's not emotionally satisfying.
Speaker 1:Yeah but in a way it is too, though, because that's something that I don't like about a lot of fantasy is you'll get pairings between always mortal woman and an immortal man, and then and they act like there's, there's a way to have a happily ever after with them, and the only so like there's some things that I've seen they make the woman immortal. So, like Twilight, they make her a vampire, which I'm like that is not a happy ending. You've made her a monster too. Then there was one that I read where they made the vampire mortal, like he was able to go back to being human, like yeah, but he's been around 500 years. Like how do you, how can you be equals, you know, at that point, and so, like, just the.
Speaker 1:I appreciate stories that accept the fact that this is, this can't work, which I feel like the story ends up doing and is one of the reasons why people hate the ending. Right, but you know it's human beings are a snapshot in time, so I like. For me, even though it is heartbreaking, I found that ending emotionally satisfying, in that they got their moment, their closure, and there was no way that they could be together, because he is eternal and she is not, and there's no possible way that can meet. So I'm glad that we that wasn't the end of it, although there are in season five. There are some continuity issues that annoy me, specifically like We'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there. Don't get ahead of us.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I don't want to get ahead of us, so I read a fan fiction novel that was set like after season four. That was totally not safe for work, work for work, like so not safe for work. Okay, you're going to have to send that to me please. Really really interesting. Really interesting, like what happens and some of the some assumptions that she sort of pulled out that this particular fan writer and it's a novel like it is long, alrighty, but the not safe for work parts, really, really, yeah, it kept it going.
Speaker 1:It kept my interest. It's coming along. I'm in a long oh my yeah. So okay, want to talk about Eve and Maze, right? So apparently everyone who sees them sees what's happening, except for Eve, right, like, while Lucifer is in that big mass, he says I'll be damned, which is an interesting line to put in the devil's mouth. Now that I think about it, yeah, and you know, and Dan sees it and you know it's just-.
Speaker 1:What's interesting, though, is that everyone who sees it, what they see is Maze. So Lucifer knows Maze better than anybody. Dan knows Maze I mean reasonably well. He's known her for four years now and has, and the way he's at, like I've never seen you look at her, look at anyone like the way you look at her you don't want to stab her. So, whereas Eve is a relatively you know, relatively new in Maze's life, Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:I think there's something really interesting about sort of the head demon, like whatever. Whatever, she clearly has a special role. She's not like all the others Mm-hmm, falling in love with the first, second woman, I don't know. There's something really interesting about that. You know that it is interesting and it also just so when Father Kinley says like, ah, the first sinner to her, there's, there's something in there too and that, like the head demon, that falling for the first sinner although I would, I mean obviously there's a reason why he says that. I mean like that's, that's your original sin. Oh, he even says you're the original sinner. So, even though I would say, like Kane is the first sinner, really, well, it depends on your definition of sin. Yeah, this is. This is based on me going like, yeah, having having some fruit, right Even if you're told not to.
Speaker 1:It was explicitly forbidden. Yeah, so says the woman who was stolen candy from her kids, sweet buckets, so you know, having a little fruit that you're told not to have, and the whole scheme of things Right, right, but yeah, I do want to like. Can we just have a momentary appreciation post for Graham McTavish, who plays Father Kinley, and then drama. Great job, I totally believed he was a different person, I know, and I was wondering like, so I'm thinking like he must actually be Irish, I'm assuming, because Graham McTavish, or Scottish, scottish, I think, scottish, so from the UK, but not Britain, because I think that's just based on his name.
Speaker 1:I think that's his actual accents and I never questioned the American accent Like the first time I watched it through, like it was so, like I wasn't even thinking about the fact that it was except when Dron, most of us, I mean he sound like a pirate, but he's chilling in every version of it and then, like the other thing that I thought was really interesting was McTavish, or where Father Kinley is like reassuring but a little creepy before you know who he is. There's, there's something, there's something very intense about him, but there's like when he says, my child, you know, like we knew this would be difficult. There's something reassuring about it, like you can see why he'd be a good priest. The minute he's wearing like the prison khakis and he's going oh, my child, you're like, oh, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, you're not calling me my child. Nothing and I'm like and I know some of it is is really just clothing. Like you know, you put on a dog collar, you get an air. It's the same way that like the white coat effect, but at the same time it's also like partially just the way that McTavish plays it and partially the fact that we now know who he is and what he's willing to do. And I loved Maze's comment. She's like I tortured guys like him before. He will never change his mind. He's a fanatic. Then for him to be similarly but differently creepy as Dromos, like when he's like who's the new king of hell? To the baby, like there's something like it's solicitous and sweet and kind of a vuncular but at the same time like oh my God, poor child. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 1:He also got to deliver that great like well, he and in Barlavi, what makes you think of like that? Oh yeah, call it a hunch, call it a hunch. Yeah, yeah, that was a nice comedic, gruesome but comedic moment. Well, it's kind of like it's dark comedy, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in Barlavi had a couple of really like good, so when she she's talking to Lucifer at the party and I don't remember what it is he said but gave her the sense that like oh, okay, things are going to be okay now she's like so when should I move my stuff back in? And it's just like yeah, oh, cringe, ouch, but she did it so well. And then the same thing when she's like kind of summoned a demon from hell and seemed like a good idea at the time yeah, you know, speaking of two, like why didn't Dromos just kill her? He knocks her out, he says I don't need you anymore. Why do you just kill her? I'm wondering if there's, if there's like some aspect of the fact that she's, like celestial adjacent, divinely created. Yeah, she was divinely created by the hand of God, and that's gonna be yeah, that's my head cannon now.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah, that's why he didn't. Yeah, that's my head cannon now, cool, cool. So, all right, I think I'm going to move us on to fluffier topics. Fluff to fluff, fluff.
Speaker 1:I know they needed it for the purposes of the storytelling, but that scarf the first and only time Chloe ever wears a scarf and it is awful, it's terrible, it's what she's done on her. I mean, like the first, like I want. I'm like, do you have a hickey? Like what are you doing? That's not, that's not a brand for you love Mm. Hmm, all right. So I've got two fluff.
Speaker 1:One Dan beatboxing, pinnacle of human achievement there. Like all, human art has been moving towards that moment when Kevin Elhan you're beatboxing, kevin Elhan, you're beatboxes. It's just I, just I. Everything was worth it to get there. So that's one. The other is the hot pockets on the silver platter From the producer. Yeah, like what? Hot pocket, hot pocket? Oh man, I don't like who does that. So, so those are my two, two pieces of fluff. Yeah, I think that's oh. One other is it's the the incredible Hulk problem. He burst out of his shirt but his pants fit just fine. So apparently some things don't get bigger. Maybe it was the wings. Well he's. You can also like see, he's got you know. Yeah, they put big chest piece on my shoulder Like he was yeah. Yeah, he'd been bulking up when he was red. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he needed some like salve or something. That's the worst piece of rice I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just red, though, it was like shaggy. Yeah, I mean, I think it's supposed to be like burn scars or something. Is that what you think? Is that what it is? No, maybe that's always what I assumed his face was supposed to be. I'm gonna go watch that scene again For science, no for art. So one of one of like the. The scene that I have watched over and over again, in part just just for the. The thirst trap is when he turns back into himself. But I'd like to and the the like and he's just looking fine, like I just need to see the belly button, please. Yeah, I actually have watched that also, but I have to like fast forward through German lines because she makes me so unhappy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, germs, I'm sure you're a wonderful person and I'm totally, yeah. Yeah, I think we have over thunk it Totally. We have definitely over thunk it and I'm supposed to be on a call with someone else in five minutes, so I'll be better go See you next week. See you next week.