In our conversation about “Really Sad Devil Guy” & “Lucifer! Lucifer! Lucifer!” we think a lot about the tropes and short cuts that come from soap opera storytelling. And we don’t hate it.
Both sisters are impressed with Tom Ellis’s ability to make us believe he is, in fact, his own twin (even down to his butt cheeks!). Tracie picks apart a key plot point in the case of the week, and Emily uses some very graphic metaphors to describe her reaction to Ellis’ American accent as Michael.
It is exceedingly clear that this episode was recorded more than a year ago, because though the angel-is-not-good and devil-is-not-bad twinning comparison to Good Omens is clear and obvious, we do not make it, raising Satanic Verses instead.
We also spend some time appreciating Lee, aka Mr. Said-Out-Bitch (Jeremiah Birkett), and his charm and emotional intelligence, even if he never fully lived up to his potential in life.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
In our conversation about “Really Sad Devil Guy” & “Lucifer! Lucifer! Lucifer!” we think a lot about the tropes and short cuts that come from soap opera storytelling. And we don’t hate it.
Both sisters are impressed with Tom Ellis’s ability to make us believe he is, in fact, his own twin (even down to his butt cheeks!). Tracie picks apart a key plot point in the case of the week, and Emily uses some very graphic metaphors to describe her reaction to Ellis’ American accent as Michael.
It is exceedingly clear that this episode was recorded more than a year ago, because though the angel-is-not-good and devil-is-not-bad twinning comparison to Good Omens is clear and obvious, we do not make it, raising Satanic Verses instead.
We also spend some time appreciating Lee, aka Mr. Said-Out-Bitch (Jeremiah Birkett), and his charm and emotional intelligence, even if he never fully lived up to his potential in life.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 2:I'm actually here with my sister, emily Geibergen. She doesn't use the hyphen, it's true.
Speaker 3:And I'm actually here with my sister, Tracy Geidecker, and she does use the hyphen.
Speaker 2:And together the two of us. This is Lightbringers, where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil. Tv show.
Speaker 3:And yes, we're overthinking it. We are so much.
Speaker 2:We're back and we're ready to talk about episodes 501 and 502, really sad devil guy and Lucifer Lucifer Lucifer, which I feel like it could have been the name of our show, actually.
Speaker 3:Yes, actually that would not have been a bad.
Speaker 2:So you're going to have to be patient with me, because even just this recording session we had to postpone a little bit. So I actually re-watched the episodes it's been probably kind of half so these are really good ones and I feel like they're pretty well-seared in my brain. But I might get a little confused about order and stuff. All right, Do you have a place you want to start?
Speaker 3:Well, I want to start talking about Lee Garner, Mr Setout bitch, Because I have always had a soft spot for Mr Setout bitch, just in seeing him recurring. He's so real, yes, and there's something so charming about him, yeah. And even when the first time we meet him in season two, he's not going to a virtual restore and he seems pretty hardened until Lucifer does the what he desire and he's like I want to be free. And he's like, oh yeah, because he thought it was the goddess who's happening him. He's like no man from debt and there's just something so real is a really good word for it. You feel like who he is, you feel the sense of humor he brings to this world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one, I mean the sense of humor. For me is the most recent time we've seen him before now, when Lucifer's handing him all that he's got the crown on and he's like his arms are full of like gold and money and stuff he's like. Can I go now? And then when he walks out and he sees me, he's just like so.
Speaker 3:Well, and so it kind of by giving him this entire backstory with this full episode, which I think is is one of the things I really like is that Jeremiah Birkitt, the actor, he can bring it with Tom Ellis to sustain an entire episode and like match him humor for humor and pathos for pathos, which is amazing and you kind of you can kind of see what his whole life was, that you know he was charming, he was looking for shortcuts. There's absolutely excellent reason why Meg was so devoted to him as sister. You know she's she's. We only get a little bit where she's telling the story about him and taking her to see saw, but you can see where, like, yeah, he was always going to be the like, the charming screw up in the family and but the charm was real and there was a real like undercurrent of I'm much kindness.
Speaker 3:I guess is kind of you know, under there, like, again, we don't see much about him. The only thing we see is the source of his pain, you know, realizing that he was so afraid of disappointing his family that he missed his chance to see them again, which is heartbreaking, yeah, and then finding out just just how much his sister missed him also is just incredibly heartbreaking. But I so love getting a chance to spend time with him and then also the the level of kind of savvy, like manipulation is such a negative term, but the way that he was kind of playing Lucifer a little bit to be like, oh, I don't have to do that hell loop for a little bit if I keep on talking, and again like it all fits like if he had found a different way to be, like he could have been really successful in different ventures, because like that that takes like intelligence and all and an awareness of the like he actually read Lucifer really really well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I mean his, his, his life is a. It's tragic, but at the same time there's something very beautiful about it. You know that there that's. He did get that that moment of intense joy at the very beginning, before we knew that there was an out loop. But you know, like I'm glad that that Lee got to have at least a moment of like, just drizzle, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I want to talk about the storytelling. We are over thinkers, that's that's our job, that's what we do on this show. So you know I love and our 12 viewers know that I love dramatic irony. Like I really enjoy sort of knowing something that the characters maybe don't know, and I think our showrunners actually quite like that as well.
Speaker 2:What's really interesting to me is that with this new arc with Michael, they decided to like not drag it out, which I think was actually really smart. I mean, there's a little piece of me that's disappointed that it didn't go on for longer, but only a little piece, because I think there was something very satisfying too about sort of Lee and Lucifer standing in front of Lee's family home in hell. And you know they talk about like don't you miss her, don't you want to go see her? And then you see him come into the space where she is and so you're like you know, for a moment you're thinking it as she does, that is him, but immediately, immediately, the showrunners show us he's still there. So we get that. We get a little dramatic irony in that we know that that's not really Lucifer and Chloe doesn't.
Speaker 2:That only lasts for half an episode, you know like into the next episode. It doesn't last for that long, which is really interesting. But even in the sort of storytelling trickery like the twist, they didn't give us that for very long either. They didn't allow us to believe that that was in fact Lucifer for very long. So I was really like I noticed that that really like stood out to me, like how quickly that was resolved for us, like the trickery against us but also against Chloe and Mays. The other thing that I'm going to really overthink and I know I know I'm over thinking it folks I know If Lucifer, if the Archangel Michael had in fact been Lucifer's twin in the last season when we had a whole story about twins and hating yourself, we sure as shit would have heard about it. You love.
Speaker 3:But we did get the moment of when Linda's trying to figure out baby names. We did. What about Michael? And a minute ago, Michael.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And in fact when this was new and I was talking to a good friend of mine about it who I had gotten her into the show and she was like the unknown twin, really the evil twin, and I was like, well, yeah, I'm with you, and Neil Gaiman has painted the Archangel Michael as a dick Repeatedly, right Like the Archangel Michael is always an asshole in Neil Gaiman stories. And so my friend was like, oh well, I guess at least it's true to source material which still sticks with me, and overthinking it cosmologically, actually, the idea that the Archangel, so Michael, if we're going to talk about names means who is like God, michael, and the fact that Michael, who is like God, and the angel who becomes the devil, the name of which means maybe squirge, maybe hammer, it's unclear. My humor is not good enough. The Samuel.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Samuel.
Speaker 2:But the idea that the one who becomes the devil, the one who actually, like in the Christian mythos, tries to overthrow and then ends up ruling hell, is actually literally twinned with the sort of second in command who stays behind. There is something really satisfying about that. It's sort of that old trope about the two, like the hero and the villain, who were friends at school, but more so because they actually have the same face, yeah. So there's something like just deeply, deeply satisfying about this idea of twinning, which, I have to say, if I were ever in a position to be a showrunner on a show like this, I mean I have a really hard time imagining that eventually. But hey, from my mouth to God's ear, right, I would be like really the evil twin. And then I'd be like, hmm, that's really satisfying that the angel is the evil twin of the devil. That's really satisfying and I would probably have green-lit it too.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a and that's all I have to say about that. Well, now I'm thinking of the Satanic verses, because the asshole is the angel and the sweetheart is the devil. It's been so many years since I read it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have it in details, but at least that long since I read it. It was your copy that I read. Oh, so then it's more.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that playing around with that like being on the side of the angel does not necessarily make you good. Yeah, is really interesting. The other aspect of it in terms of storytelling is embracing the fact that this show is also a soap opera. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, like with the pairing, the shipping of Maison and Almas, of Lauren Chloe, maison Chloe, yeah, that shipping is like that's total soap opera drama, yeah yeah, and so the long lost twin, and it's the miracle baby.
Speaker 3:There's so many aspects to it, and that's not to say that I think of this as like General Hospital or anything like that. But people who grew up to be showrunners, I'm sure, just consume all the television, and so there is that influence to it as well, and that's part of what I like about it. Like, when I really get into a show, I fall in love with the characters and I need to know what happens to them, and it is like people will say, oh, it's gotten soap opera, and I'm like that's kind of what I like about it. Yeah, so I do want to say so. Tom Ellis, as Michael is amazing.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, I forget, it's a different person I know Well, like that was, like I was, so I mean I forget it's not a different person. Yeah, Watching the second episode, I find it hard to watch because I'm like it's like Tom Ellis is hardly in it.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 3:But I'm like, I'm just like man, I miss him, I'm like he's right there. But I do want to say his American accent is both impeccable and deeply upsetting. Yeah, and I can't figure out what it is, why it's so upsetting, considering it's really good.
Speaker 2:Like I think it's.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think it's that sort of like unexpected, you know, like it's like when you pick up a glass that you think is water, and it's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, there's like wrong with right. It's just upsetting. Yes, it's very upsetting. I think that's exactly what it is, exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:I have this like a crave and like hate. Hearing him in the American accents it's like the pimple opera videos Like. After watching him I'm like, please no.
Speaker 2:I find what's interesting is I find I'm so internalized that American accent as Michael that like now when I go back you know they like they released an album with all the music and so like like when he's saying, like luck, be a lady, like back in the Vegas episode with candy and stuff, and he did it like when he sings it's sort of that Americanized, like ew, it sounds like Michael, so funny, so funny, yeah, okay, all right. So let's talk about that second episode briefly. Like well, when Chloe knows, but we don't know if she knows, and she's teasing him in front of the vending machine, that moment is so understated and beautiful when she like lifts up that and she says maybe the reflection, and she walks away and he looks down and he's like reflection, reflection, so good, I mean like the writing, the acting, the editing is so good that moment.
Speaker 3:That's a perfection. Yes, so good. I do want to say, considering the twinning and the kind of like the dark reflection of each other, the fact that Michael's power is fear, and fear being opposite of desire is fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well done showrunners, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I really appreciate that. And then I also appreciate the way that, like on rewatch, you see him using it without because he doesn't do the. What is it that you fear? Like he doesn't have to look you in the eye Until that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, which actually makes sense, because I think Lucifer can do that to an extent. Yeah, which is how he ends up making out with people.
Speaker 3:I find that really interesting in the way that he draws out Like some of it just seems like he is attuned to people's fears in the way that Lucifer is attuned to people's desires. So when Linda is like who's watching hell, I got to protect this baby. And he, like it's very, very minor but noticing, she says this baby. And like you know, some of that is like someone who's very attuned to people and attuned to that particular like sense of something wrong in the way people are talking would be able to be like interesting choice of words. Why'd he say this baby so and so, and then at the end we see that she had, she has those pictures that have the 1994 with her in a hospital gown with an infant, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So I agree with everything that you said about the attuned and the overthinking movement is like like a menadial, so oblivious to human society when he first came to earth I mean, we saw that in the like in the flashback episode where he drew a picture with Jackle Cern, but even and like when he slept with the prostitute because he didn't know she was a prostitute, and like just so completely oblivious to human culture or MRAs and whatever, whereas Michael is deeply attuned, like completely intercultural in that sense, from Silver City to humans, which is really like.
Speaker 3:What do you think? I have an in universe explanation for that. Okay, so in universe. In universe, not in universe.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes more sense. I thought they were created. Okay, All right, I'm with you now in universe. Can you speak of Linda's baby? I'm pulling this out of somewhere. I'm pulling this out of somewhere. I have to be right back. All right, I'm back. All right, let's hear it. You're in universe. Explanations.
Speaker 3:So a Menomital makes it clear that he thinks he's above humans. It pays no attention whatsoever. In the Silver City in my imagining Michael is fascinated by humans because they are like bundles of fear. So he's been watching all this time and paying attention and kind of taking things in, because they all have that fear that he's most interested in. And it would also fit with him being Lucifer's twin, because Lucifer would be like they're just bundles of desire. And so he is paying attention in a way that Menadil never would have occurred to him too, because you don't pay attention to ants.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Or like Remy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, yes. And since we overthink it, that episode where we see like five years ago and like Lucy's in like 70s, you know, fashion with like the big wide lapels and the bell bottoms and stuff. I can explain that to you last time I was here. They explain that to Okay.
Speaker 3:So that is because from hell, lucy can't, can't, pay attention to what's going on on earth, whereas from heaven, silver city, you can see, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:I mean it does seem clear that, Okay, he can't see, because, like, even when he and Lee are standing in front of Lee's childhood home and they're looking up, but it's clear that he doesn't know. And he also said, which Michael says too, so that seems in universe, true that it's only been a couple of months for them, but it's been thousands of years. So, like that, making the time different, like you and I have a hard time and it's like one hour difference. So figuring out like where we are at the time, continuum, yeah, all right. All right, I guess I'll buy it Sold, I'll buy it All right.
Speaker 3:There is one thing now it's because of I happened to watch something two days before I watched these two episodes. Adam Conover, who does? Adam ruins everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've only seen an episode or two, but I'm familiar with it.
Speaker 3:So he now has a podcast that he also releases on YouTube, called factually, where he interviews people about things that you know people don't know much about. I meant to look it up before we recorded and I totally forgot. But he was interviewing a woman who was the author of a book called snitch, and it's about how the police in America use informants and how, at either end of the spectrum, it's horrific, because at the one end, you've got these like tiny little fish, like you know someone's arrested for you know carrying something petty marijuana to get themselves high, and they tell them you're going to go to jail unless you inform on your dealer. And then she was telling this horrible story of a young woman who got killed because of that. Like she went to inform us, she wore a wire, the dealer found it and killed her. Then, on the other end of it, you've got like Jack Abramoff, if you remember him, so like this huge, corrupt, horrible person who, because he knew the shit on everybody else, was able to get off.
Speaker 3:And so, having watched that the day before I watched these two episodes, I was like very aware of the propaganda of these two episodes and, in particular, the way Maze was manhandling the guy that they brought in and they play it for laughs and the first time I saw it I did find it, you know, funny.
Speaker 3:And there's the moment where she and Chloe are finishing each other's sentences without quite finishing it and like that's amazing and they also make this guy gross. So you don't feel bad for him, but at the same time it's just like this is just some dude, you know, he's just kind of lived his life. So between that and then you know the subplot with the men-a-deal, like I want to make the world safe for my child and I'm like, yeah, american policing is not the way to do that, and so I was really uncomfortable and you know, as we've mentioned before, like dealing with the like teasing out the fact that the show is something that I adore, and yet it is also a bit of a problem, part of the problem in American policing and the assumption of the police being the good guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we will get. I mean, in season six we get the show a little bit at least examining that. But but yeah, it's, it is an ongoing yeah For me. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And then also like there was the joke about like yeah, because a men-a-deal comes to Dan, he's like, all right, I've got something. He's like not another jailbreaker. Right A litre or whatever A litre or a three-year-old, and it was a four-year-old or three-year-old, and it's like and it goes on for the joke, but at the same time it's just like he knows that that's. That has nothing to do with what's going to put his son at rest.
Speaker 2:He was safe. Yeah, he was son safe. Yeah, and it seems a bit of, though, that a men-a-deal from the beginning was presented as this rule follower yeah, so there is to an extent that that feels in character for this not quite fallen angel who's you know? That is a learning edge for him about the fact that rules aren't fair just because they're rules.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2:So in the subplot, though, of the like, the case of the week, there's a big old gap for me in the like why did Lucifer give her that message, and what happened to what was in the safe?
Speaker 3:I think what was supposed to be, what happened was in the safe was he'd spent it. It was just gone, and so it was the same thing that he always did.
Speaker 2:So why did Lucifer send Chloe that message? That's a good question, Because Liam Lucifer don't know that the hand's been removed. That happens post-mortem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Like that the safe is the reason they took that. That seems like the reason that they would have told her that, but they don't know. That feels like a whole. Yeah, I think you're right In that story. I think you're right Like it was it made it. It made for some interesting like character and detectable work Well back and we for some interesting back and forth in the actually like figuring out what the hell the message meant, a little who's on first. That was kind of amusing, especially with that added layer of like Chloe can't tell, at least I mean can't tell maze, but can't tell.
Speaker 1:In front of she thought yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But well, I mean, the only thing to think of is that, like demons can be kind of dumb, and he didn't. He had limited time in that jacked up body.
Speaker 2:But he, the message was clear, Like he was like. I don't know you stored it. That feels like a hole to me in the storyline. The other overthinking thing which happens in both of these episodes is like how do the demons know that this new arrival is related Like well?
Speaker 3:the only thing I can think of is that, since now the, the, the timeframe, like we. We don't know the exact, but Malcolm in season one was dead for 30 seconds and it was like 30 years. So they're not like in hell, they're not new arrivals, like they could have been there for what felt like four or five years.
Speaker 2:Except that in the second episode actually I don't remember which one, because it's been too long but one of them is like why am I here? What's going on? Right Like it's the demon, the demons, the neighbor watering the lawn, wearing the bathrobe, lord of the suffer, what? And then he's like standing there with the guy that had just died. I don't know if it was one of Lee's hunch. Yeah, I think it was. It happens a couple of times, but one of the one of the newly deceased is like what's going on?
Speaker 3:That's true, all right, that's another whole. Unless, although, to your point perhaps, they were in their hell loop and the demons saw Chloe and was like, oh wait, chloe's in the guy's hell loop, yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause, if the hell loop, and then if they take them, take them out of the hell loop.
Speaker 3:That's like. It's like they started over again, so maybe that's what it? Is so. So maybe it was just at the end of their first hell loop.
Speaker 2:Maybe, or even in the middle. Yeah, depending on the demons, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I want to talk about the case of the week. In the second one, I had completely forgotten that they were, you know, poking fun at Elon Musk and and, uh, and Jeff's yeah, I completely forgot about that with Anders Brody, which I was, I had also forgotten that. They brought him back, like that. We met him once before and they brought him back and the guy's, like I thought we were friends, so they, I felt like they did a nice job, because sometimes they tried to tie the case of the week to the, the, the characters, and it is like what the hell? This is ridiculous.
Speaker 3:And then this one I felt like they did a nice job of like you know, it really is like someone goes someplace, they're away from their, their, their, their regular life for a long time. They come back, changed, but not that changed. So I liked the parallels and it was Chloe seeing the parallels, cause it was, it wasn't there. But we get to the end. We find out who the murderer is and it's that woman thinking that's the guy was cheating on her. And he, as soon as he realizes that's what happened, he confesses and she's like no, no, I won't let you confess. And then he's like nothing would change the way I feel about you and I'm like I don't know, murder, murder would change the way I feel about someone. I mean like that sounds lovely, but same same.
Speaker 2:There are things that you could do that would make me not want to be with you. I mean, yeah, Like and like stabbing my coworker in the neck. That's one of them. Yeah, yeah, it's on the let me. Let me check the list. Yeah, let's run through on the list.
Speaker 3:Well to be fair to the, to the show also. I feel like not that it's the same. But Chloe saying to to Michael, like yeah, I knew Lucifer would never do that to me, but do that to me with with Mays would never like that's when she knew for sure. Like this is not Lucifer, I don't buy that. Yeah Well, like it's the nature of it's, like it was the, the performative nature of it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the way that he was like when, when, when Michael was like okay, well, I'm just going to go home on my lonesome, and she was like was that an invitation? And and Dan was like I don't know, that part was clearly not like Lucifer would never have ignored her clear attempts to spend time with that. I do think she's right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and it was, it was set up. I mean, it was clearly a set up, yeah, so so it's not that Lucifer would never with Mays, it's Lucifer would never set her up to catch her with Mays. Yeah, I remember the first time I watched this. The whole time I was like she's got it, please, she's got it, she's got it. Does she know? I don't know. Does she know? No, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:German redeems herself a little bit with these two episodes from my like super dislike of the the end of season four. Cause that, yeah, Cause you know what, I binged the first three or maybe all four seasons and then. But then I was, I was with the rest of the world waiting for five, and so, and you know like four ended and I was like, oh, Mark, German Recast. But then season five started. I was like, oh, hmm, perhaps I judged too harshly because that, yeah, she does an awesome job. Yeah, Like, even in like sort of the does she know or doesn't she Like she does a great job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, she does. I've seen people say that they can tell when Michael is putting on Lucifer's accents. But it's not quite Lucifer's accent. I can't quite hear that. Oh no, me neither. But when he is putting on Lucifer's accent, and particularly when they're in front of the vending machine, he is definitely not Lucifer there, like you can and like that is so impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because there's a discomfiture. He's enjoying her attention, but there is a discomfiture that Lucifer would not have Like. There is a like not quite comfortable in his skin feeling that you get from him in that scene that Lucifer would not have when that was happening at all. Yeah, yeah, you know the other. So there's another moment that's like, hmm, michael, lucifer kind of thing, which is when he breaks into the home of it turns out the murderer and the person they thought was the murderer that, like Lucifer has done before Oops, it was open. And then the way Michael just takes off and it's sort of scary the way she's following and seeing just like his glimpses of him in the distance. And then they hear the shotgun cock and like have to like jump out of the way. That whole scene, what, what was Michael's angle, like, what was? Was he like grooving on the fear, like I don't, I don't get what was happening, that Michael kept going.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Well, the grooving on the fear is is is reasonable, like you know, because if he senses the fear of the people in the house, like the thing that I was thinking as it was happening was like, well, he is invulnerable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he has no fear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he has no fear of his physical safety anyway. The other thing that I found interesting this time around was like when he jumps over the car with her which is an amazing scene and I am so resentful that it's Michael but then also with the shotgun, when he grabs her and and and he protects her the way Lucifer would in both of those scenes.
Speaker 2:Well, he needs her to believe that he's Lucifer. Yeah, in order to break, to break his life, to break Lucifer's life the way that he wants to. So that makes a certain amount of sense.
Speaker 3:It does. It's the, the lack of hesitation, it's like there's there's no question, it's just like an immediate like. And that's that's where I was like that's interesting, what's going on here? And I don't know. I mean it's. This is me overthinking it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the scene where she reveals him. You know where she shoots him.
Speaker 3:It's like you know this doesn't hurt me. It's like, yeah, but it's maybe feel better.
Speaker 2:Feel better, and then, to prove that he's not like that, who he is, he shows her his wings. That's pretty cool. Yeah, these look like Lucifer's wings. Yeah, and even that, actually thinking of the symbolism and the twinning, right, lucifer has like bright white wings and Michael's wings are like gray dark, which is sort of interesting in terms of traditional symbolism, right.
Speaker 3:It's interesting also because, like that dark gray is like in some ways, the color of fear, like I. You know, if fear had a color, the idea that desire could be like bright, bright, is interesting, very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool, all right. Well, we've been talking for a long minute now, so do you have any fluff you want to lay on us?
Speaker 3:I got two pieces of fluff, okay. The first is that Linda looks amazing in these episodes. Like she's just gorgeous, I also. I mean, she's also the kind of mom that drove me nuts when I, my kids, were babies. It's completely understandable and like forgivable and all of that, but it's also just like calm down, calm down. Another like very small thing Ella has to do some. Like it's thankless what Amy Garcia has to do, that she has to give exposition. It's like, yeah, sometimes I really like that. Boys like that, that exposition. And then also the fact that she had to define STEM. Like did someone at Netflix say like, oh, people aren't going to know what STEM means? Like, just let's go with it, we can Google it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I thought it stuck out to me as well, that stuck out so well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And just like poor Amy Garcia. So that's one. Like Linda looks amazing and yeah, and then poor Amy. Then the other is how Tom Ellis such a good actor that he can make his ass look unattractive when he's Michael.
Speaker 2:You know, it's really funny. And he's not doing the shoulder thing, then no, he is. Well, I mean only slightly.
Speaker 3:It's not that like. There's the time where I was in silhouette where it's real obvious and it's because he's like relaxing after having to be Lucifer all day, Like when he's pretending in the mirror he's, it's more a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because I remember the first time I was watching I was like what is? Why is he standing like that? What's wrong with his arm? What's wrong with his back? Like it was enough that I?
Speaker 3:you know, maybe I study Tom's back more than I was able to like something that are going like. I do not want to be looking at this. There's a normal way I still do. That's what I'm looking at. I'm not saying A passport or anything. Yeah, yeah, but it's not like you know in previous iterations or I've been like can we make this last three or four minutes longer? It's just like it's entirely acting. How do ask he's act? I don't know. Those are, those are my flaws.
Speaker 3:I wish I had something really good, I am wondering how many pianos Lucifer goes through in a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's not fluff, like that's legit. Why didn't he take her? All she wanted for the past five years was to go back, yeah. And then and she'd just been dumped Like, yeah, take the poor girl home. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she, I know, on the like, the like discussion boards about Lucifer, people get really mad at May's because, you know, every season she betrays Lucifer or her friends and it's, like you know, I feel like they did reasonable character work in, like in every season. It is completely understandable why she does what she does and this one is like the most comprehensible. And then the way that she is trying to use Chloe to fill all of the, the emptiness that, like you know, because she's she's missing Eve. Then, like Lucifer, her, her best and oldest friend, has basically abandoned her yeah, abandoned, completely abandoned her, and she's stuck here. And then when she she puts the move on Chloe, like that also makes sense because that's the only way she knows how to be close to people. Mm, hmm, yep, and so, yeah, yeah, yeah, who? Amazed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to end there.
Speaker 3:I don't want to end there. Oh, I got. I got another like little leaf A menadil in the first episode, wearing that three piece suit.
Speaker 2:Facebook just told me I wanted to be websites top fans. Hi TV oh man, that's a good place to add it. Yes, all right, we overthink it enough for one day. We overthink it so much today, I will see you, I don't know whenever we're able to do this again. Yeah, the goal is next week About that.
Speaker 1:Our theme song is feral angel waltz by Kevin McLeod from Incompetentcom, Licensed under Creative Commons by attribution 4.0 license. Visit the show notes for the URL. I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narrakeepcom. Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, Netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.