And so begins the Guy sisters’ rewatch of Season 6: Nobody’s favorite season.
With these two episodes, the sisters spend considerable time lamenting the fact that there are no media role models for people who are childless by choice, including, it seems, Lucifer. We also are perplexed and perturbed by multiple details of these two episodes, from Lucifer’s assertion that he is a “wonder-seeker” to what the heck is sexy about all the broken furniture to how Ella Lopez could be at all attracted to vanilla, milquetoast, Carrol.
On the other hand, there is a unanimous appreciation for the drag performers in the second episode and the writing that had one of those performers sharing she always aims to make people laugh to avoid having them laugh at her in the wrong way.
We get a little bit ahead of ourselves in thinking about the storybeat that is Rory, and whether or not hers is the ending the show deserved, and puzzle over the inclusion of Michael in Hell, whose face we never see (because they couldn’t get the actor back? J/k Michael is Tom Ellis, too!), and close out the episode by sharing our own drag names.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
And so begins the Guy sisters’ rewatch of Season 6: Nobody’s favorite season.
With these two episodes, the sisters spend considerable time lamenting the fact that there are no media role models for people who are childless by choice, including, it seems, Lucifer. We also are perplexed and perturbed by multiple details of these two episodes, from Lucifer’s assertion that he is a “wonder-seeker” to what the heck is sexy about all the broken furniture to how Ella Lopez could be at all attracted to vanilla, milquetoast, Carrol.
On the other hand, there is a unanimous appreciation for the drag performers in the second episode and the writing that had one of those performers sharing she always aims to make people laugh to avoid having them laugh at her in the wrong way.
We get a little bit ahead of ourselves in thinking about the storybeat that is Rory, and whether or not hers is the ending the show deserved, and puzzle over the inclusion of Michael in Hell, whose face we never see (because they couldn’t get the actor back? J/k Michael is Tom Ellis, too!), and close out the episode by sharing our own drag names.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 2:Hi there, I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken. She does not use a hyphen.
Speaker 3:And I'm here with my sister, Tracy Guy-Burken. She does not use a hyphen. And I'm here with my sister, Tracy Guy-Decker she does use a hyphen.
Speaker 2:And together this is Lightbringers, where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show and we are definitely overthinking it so much overthinking.
Speaker 3:We're cracking season six Nobody's favorite season.
Speaker 2:So today we're going to talk about episodes one and two of season six. Nothing ever changes around here and buckets of baggage, so yeah. So this is, let's dive in. These are the. These are seasons five and six are the ones that I watched like in real time as they were released me too. Yes, although they were on netflix, so I still binged them because they dropped a whole season, or half a season in the case of five at a time. So okay, so let's talk about these two.
Speaker 3:So we're back in the very uh, back with the same motorcycle cop from the first scene, that's of episode one, season one right, it it's and it mirrors it's.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because in that very first scene of the of the pilot, he was in the corvette, but in the black in a black suit and now he's in a white tuxedo, which I think is meant to help symbolize the fact that now he's good. I'm putting quotes around that word yeah Right, we're with the motorcycle cop.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Who did buy himself something pretty. Lots of cocaine, lots of cocaine, right.
Speaker 2:He lost his job. I mean, excuse me, he lost his wife and he lost his house. Now he lives in a boat.
Speaker 3:And he's lost any forward momentum in his career Right, which is probably the well, you know what I was going to say. It's the most realistic aspect of this, this episode that, um, you know they wouldn't fire from the lapd, but then I'm thinking like, actually in the lapd it might not actually affect his ability to get promotions in the real world right, right, right.
Speaker 2:And then we go into this like bizarre magic.
Speaker 3:I had the thought, watching this, that someone in the writer's room is into magic and really wanted to find a way to kind of, and it also makes a little bit of sense in that that's one aspect of, like LA weirdness that they haven't explored, because I don't. I know very little about magic, but I believe that LA is one of the places where you will find more than your normal share of magicians.
Speaker 2:So I appreciated the kind of contrast that the writers were trying to give us between Chloe, who seeks the truth, and Lucifer who seeks wonder and sex and drugs and debauchery. But like I didn't buy it, like I didn't buy it at all and and the like. The moments when, when, like the old guy is like telling how the trick is done, and so Lucifer has his fingers in his ears and it's like singing to himself so he doesn't hear it, I didn't buy that at all. I didn't buy that at all. Like that just did not work for me, for Lucifer in the abstract, as a millennial old person, nor Lucifer in the specific of, like this Lucifer morning star played by time malice that we have seen, kind of I just didn't buy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's the first time they have introduced any idea of this and it's it's like my pet peeve where I hate it in long running TV shows where they want to introduce some sort of like conflict and so they pretend that it's always been there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like years and years ago there was a show called caroline in the city that I really loved from the 90s and there was um, her assistant was, uh, was in love with her but couldn't tell her, and in one episode he's just like, oh yeah, well, I've never felt like this about anyone, except maybe Julia. And that same episode Julia shows up and I'm like, well, that's convenient, you could have had this conversation three episodes ago, just had that conversation three episodes ago, and let it be. And so that's what this feels like, is like out of of nowhere. They've decided this is true about lucifer and it does not fit with the character that we have known for five years now and I like he a wonder seeker, a pleasure seeker, yeah, and there is a pleasure inker, yeah, and there is a pleasure in in being tricked not tricked, but um yeah, tricked.
Speaker 2:I mean, I mean, I actually think there are ways you could have gone at it, even like. I mean, they referenced Houdini with the imagery repeatedly and Houdini talked about the difference between, um, like people paying you to trick them and tricking people into paying you. Like that was like a like when he was, when he was you to trick them and tricking people into paying you.
Speaker 2:That was like a like when he was, when he was exposing fake psychics and things, and in his second act of his career I am Houdini and you are a fraud. Yeah, I feel like I should know what that is, but I you're the one who told me about it. So such a great memory.
Speaker 3:So, um he was, he was so famous, um, he had retired from, from his like escape artistry, that uh um, and he wanted to believe in spiritualism.
Speaker 2:He wanted to believe that there was a really wanted to believe people after death?
Speaker 3:Um, but, and he hated the fact that so many frauds were out there. So he would disguise himself and go to these seances to see what they were doing and to figure out how they did it, which he couldn't do because of his background. And so as soon as he figured out how they were doing it, he would take off his disguise and shout I am Houdini and you're a fraud, which is something that I feel like should be like worked into casual conversation on a daily basis, because what a great phrase and like the thing is, nobody knows what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:yeah, so when I was working at the jewish museum of maryland, we did an exhibit about, about harry houdini and and so I learned a lot about about him and so and I I feel like it was, it was there and and that maybe even I could have, like I could have integrated that with the lucifer that I know and sort of like it's one thing to have people pay you to trick them and it's another to trick them into paying you.
Speaker 2:Like he kind of enjoyed being tricked, um, and not knowing how the trick happened and like but the, because he is a celestial and like is magic. Like one of the very first scenes of the whole series we see him with that weird coin, that kind of levitates, and like I mean it just doesn't. And like even his deals, where somebody wants something, he manages to make it happen like I just didn't buy it. Yeah, and and I think, if you're right, and somebody in the writer's room like really wanted magic in the to you know, to explore magic in one of the procedurals, I think they could have done a more thorough job of integrating that with the Lucifer that we have grown to love and I was wondering, like I meant to look it up and didn't get a chance to but I was wondering if that place, the like magician's bar, whatever it was called is a real place in.
Speaker 2:LA. Oh yeah, I didn't look it up because I thought that might be.
Speaker 3:That might be part of it too is like they're trying to cause.
Speaker 2:There is a bit of um travel tourism into this show in some ways um so, and even pop culture a little bit, because, though they make up pop culture stuff, they also, in the next episode that we watched today, like that's a real movie super cop with jackie chan and michelleoh. So yeah, maybe it is a real club listeners.
Speaker 3:Let us know yeah, if, if you know, if you know any LA listeners. The other thing that got me was I also didn't buy that he would be annoyed that Chloe was trying to solve the mystery, because that's one of the things he really likes about her. Um, watching this episode and this is only the second time I've seen it um, I actually can recall when the, when season six dropped it dropped on just like a friday or something and you both you and I both were like okay, we're not getting any work done today, and we both watched about the same time and you texted me and you're like I didn't love it. I'm, I'm like yeah, yeah, fair enough. But as I was watching it this time, I was sitting there going like what do the two of them even have in common? You know, like this, this does not feel like a cohesive, loving, happy couple, happy couple.
Speaker 3:And I think some of this is the pitfall of any long running show, in that you take a small characteristic about a character and then you have to keep upping the stakes just to be able to keep the story going, and also because if it was funny once, it's going to be even funnier the next time. You know that sort of thing. So if, for example, like if you watch all 10 seasons of friends, like the character of ross, why would you do that? I'm sorry, we got a real fan here did.
Speaker 2:I say that out loud it's.
Speaker 3:It's the kind of tv show that I can have on in the background and it's just, it's like comfort background noise for me, yeah, but the character of ross in the first season is a real person and by the 10th season, is just a like a, a collection of really, really obnoxious quirks, because everything has been magnified so much and so that that's the sort of thing that I feel like is kind of what's happening to Chloe, or to both of them to well, to Lucifer definitely, because he's, he's making it about him like okay, let's get out of here, cause you know we want to have the rest of our date. It's the introduction of the idea that he's into wonder.
Speaker 2:It's, yeah, it's, it's a bit of a betrayal of the character. It feels like, yeah, um, even the like the montage of carol interviewing everyone, and then the thing about like him saying that he was there at the founding of the club in 1960, whatever and how old are you?
Speaker 3:and?
Speaker 2:like lucifer has never lied about who he is, but I feel like he was more cagey about things. That would be confusing a giveaway, yeah, yeah, to humans before. So yeah, I feel like the season one lucifer, if in fact this had been a thing, would have said something like I knew the people who founded it, you know like, which is still true and still like wow I gotta say I will.
Speaker 3:I do appreciate and I feel like they got, they nailed this. When he says what's not to like about magic? You never lie but you obfuscate without ever specifically lying. Yeah and like yeah, that's that that would appeal to him. I can completely understand that.
Speaker 2:So I I I appreciated that so I I appreciated that, but yeah, this, just this, this episode just doesn't work. Yeah, and the the, that same montage that I'm talking about with carol that was used in the trailers when they were releasing it, with the weird clown like figure behind him, uh, like behind carol, behind carol, while carol's talking.
Speaker 2:There's this weird like sort of clown, so it's like very surreal and absurd and it was almost like somebody was like, well, we got to make the commercial so that people are like what the heck is going on? I have to watch and find out. And it felt Staged. Yeah, that's the word.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the subplot of the dinner party at Linda's house. Yes, that I felt like was better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was more believable at least. It was more believable, but it's a similar it's a similar sort of exaggerated characterization of wenda. I think it also then led to some pretty like just like bald exposition on the part of menediel. That felt forced, like it almost felt like, since we just saw them, the writers kind of like wink at the good place folks. It sort of felt like, well, we can put in some like philosophical, like moral story stuff and and let amenadiel deliver it and they've.
Speaker 2:It's not like they haven't given us some of that in the past, but this was just felt very heavy handed and less nuanced than it has in the past. I mean, and Linda even says like that's nice, but I'm not there. So maybe that was part of the point was that it was heavy. I don't know. I don't know. I stand by my original text to you. I didn't love it. Yeah, I didn't, didn't love it.
Speaker 3:I well, and we'll talk about carol more because he's more important to the second episode.
Speaker 2:Do let's, let's yeah, talk a little about the second episode yeah, which I, which I just watched today, which is why it was fresher in my head where they we open, in that like they're meant to be having rockets all over the penthouse breaking furniture, breaking furniture, sex because she has the um, the piece, so she's got superhuman strength. I guess it wasn't supposed to be, but like that wasn't sexy, like especially compared to like that first scene when they, when they first get together and it's just so, you know, and he sort of offers his hand and she takes it and he leads her into the bedroom and it's, I don't know, it just felt like intimate and genuine and really hot, yeah, like H-A-W-T hot, and this was none of those things, which I guess was the point.
Speaker 3:It was supposed to be funny, I think, maybe it just also like it feels like it's serving a very specific kink, rather than it being like yeah, this is what you do, I, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I I just like I'm having trouble imagining what it's supposed to look like that leaves this path of destruction yeah, with furniture turned over and yeah, and I like I just maybe I'm like giving away too much about my sexual proclivities, but like I don't, even if I had superhuman strength that doesn't help, I wouldn't change any.
Speaker 3:Well, like, you still need to be delicate about certain areas, even with superhuman strength. You don't want to squeeze anything too hard. I don't know, yeah, it's. It's very, very bizarre, because it's. There's no sense that lucifer is like yeah, I can't, you know, throw my partners around like I'd like to, because it would hurt them. No, and granted, he is, you know, the king of desire, and so he fulfills the other person's desire, so her desire is his.
Speaker 3:So, okay, she wants to do this oh, but she's throwing him around, yeah but that so like that makes it a little hotter, yeah like the caveman thing, except uh gender swap where she just throws him over her shoulders like you're coming with me right now yeah, I guess I, I don't know I it's so, it's so weird.
Speaker 2:Okay, moving on, moving on.
Speaker 3:I guess we're just befuddled. I mean, and maybe the guy sisters are just so vanilla. Yeah, that's entirely possible, entirely possible. I've been married.
Speaker 2:It'll be 15 years on thursday so, mazel tov, thank you, which means it's been 14 for me.
Speaker 3:So, yes, yeah and mazel tov to you. Uh, so it's been a while since we've been on the market.
Speaker 2:Put it that way, not not like I think we should move on and not include this part.
Speaker 3:I mean all right, we'll stop with where you said, mazel tov anyway. So, amenadiel, like and I, I get the impression they're trying to hit some beats from from season one. You know, amenadiel, your, your return to heaven has been requested instead of your return to hell has been requested yeah yeah, and you know he doesn't want to go off half cocked, which is what chloe says. Yeah, which is very unchloe yeah and of course he's he needs to go talk to linda because he has no idea how to care about all seven billion humans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is what he thinks he needs to do because of what Ella said about God.
Speaker 3:Yes, so because Carol's new you know he's the newest member of the staff. He's going to help him so that he can learn how to care about people who are not within his circle, or how to help people who he doesn't care about. Yeah, yeah, that's right. He wants to help people he doesn't care about. Not care about people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because in fact that's what he's disappointed at the end, when he realized he's come to care about Carol.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, who is the most vanilla milk toast white?
Speaker 2:guy Like it's really hard to believe that he was undercover in Vice. It's hard to believe that the he's complicated.
Speaker 3:No offense to that actor, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Or that Ella Lopez would be as tongue-tied around him as she seems to be. I mean, how is Kung Fu movies enough?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like he's supposed to be, like he's a little bit dorky too in that initial, but you know, I believe Pete more yeah, me too. I mean he seemed more genuine as a kind of somewhat awkward geek yeah, yeah and I had this kind of cast for the last season.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. But and some of it, I know. There are reasons why they. They cast a white guy and they wanted it to be because later on we see issues of race in the LAPD right, um, so I think that that was an intentional choice. But boy is he just vanilla and like, I mean to be fair, he, he seems perfectly capable of like. He just accepts the pronouns um preferred by the drag queens, um, and, you know, takes them seriously, which is not necessarily what you would expect from someone, you know, white guy, strong jaw person.
Speaker 2:But that's, that's a, that's a bare minimum level of but that's also played very intentionally to his discomfiture in their presence, right I mean that's yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's very uncomfortable with the, uh, the hostess, and when, when lucifer's like, oh you, there's a connection here with Busty, he handles it well for being discomfited, but there's just nothing there, it's just boring. Yeah, and I like the only interesting thing about him is his name is Carol and even, like you know, finding out that he's recovering alcoholic. That could have been interesting, but they don't even get into it. He's like, yeah, I was in rehab for a year. Okay, what happened? You know like, you know like and that's not the story that needs to be told, necessarily, but there's just nothing there and Ella deserves better.
Speaker 2:It also like in that final scene with Ella well, not the final scene, the almost final scene when he's apologizing for like trying to be like a bad boy.
Speaker 2:She's like I broke into your house and I stole your personal house and he's like, oh, okay, yeah, I mean I think if she had, I just feel like it should have been written differently. Like she should have led with my last boyfriend turned out to be I didn't know, he almost killed me and so I kind of have trouble trusting and so I did these things and I really shouldn't have but PTSD, as Lucifer said, which was a clever little pun. She didn't lead with that. Based on what she led with, like I don't believe that even this milk, those two would just be like, okay, I think you would be like, uh, nice, knowing you, I'm gonna go get a restraining order, like something, something you did, what now? And then kind of calm down when she says about Pete but yeah, there was. There was like no emotional reaction whatsoever to I broke into your apartment and I stole your personnel file no emotional reaction whatsoever.
Speaker 3:I don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:I don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's so infuriating because it could have. Were they writing in a hurry? That's actually what I exactly what I'm thinking. I feel like maybe they were, like they were shooting, like in pandemic conditions, right.
Speaker 3:So maybe they actually were writing in a hurry because the like they weren't sure they were going to do it, and then it was crinlin and then like I don't know, I don't know, but it that is my impression as well that the writing feels rushed because it's just not as nuanced as it has been in previous seasons so my husband walked in while I was watching the second episode and the scene between Dan and who we will find out is Rory, where Dan goes like oh, that's something else I feel guilty about, and he takes out the notebook and is writing it down and he's like did they change writers Like these, the same writers as from before? I'm like he's like, because that's bad writing. I'm like, don't, don't sugarcoat it any.
Speaker 2:tell me how you really feel yeah, yeah, that also feels unlikely that because he said he's like in a previous conversation with lucifer, he's been working on all that. He's got the notebook.
Speaker 3:Really, this is the first time you thought about the fact that you shot lucifer yeah that was in years also how would rory not know that her sister's father tried to kill her father? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's no way, unless Chloe kept it from her somehow.
Speaker 2:Like how I mean I can't imagine, like because she knows maize and eve and amenadiel like I can't imagine that dan was already dead by the time she was born, I mean sure and I'm sure that they only told like you know how it happens with dead people you don't talk about the shitty things they did, yeah, I, I don't know, I just well, and then that she wouldn't know who Dan was. Well, that is different. Like she would have and she would have recognized him. And, in fact, even if what I'm saying is accurate, there would have been surprise, because she would have thought of Dan as, like you know, on a pedestal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and her big sister's beloved big sister's well based on the way dad trixie would have talked about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it would have shocked her that dan could be the one, if she didn't know already. Right, the other thing in the hill scene that I think I said to you at the time, like what was going on with Michael, yeah, well, oh that really bothers me. A small piece of was it fan service. We didn't see his face. It's not like they couldn't get the actor. Yeah Like, why did they include that at all? It was such a throwaway it was such a throwaway.
Speaker 3:So I really, really don't like the fact that michael is there, because it undercuts the second chance.
Speaker 2:The second chance totally undercuts the second chance that he was supposedly giving michael by not killing him. I'm not gonna kill, kill you, I'm just going to confine you to earth, basically Scrubbing hell with a toothbrush yeah, and the wounds never healed yeah, and it's been a thousand years in hell.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a very good point, because Lucifer's scars healed over.
Speaker 2:I mean Lucifer's were cut off with a demon blade, presumably. Yeah, cut with azrael's with the flaming sword. With the flaming sword? Yeah, wouldn't it then cauterize it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah it. It doesn't make any. It makes no sense and I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know why it was included, because it didn't help anything, and if it was fan service it did not serve this fan. Like it just confused me and kind of upset me a little bit yeah, well, because it it makes lucifer seem vindictive.
Speaker 3:Because how, how did he end up there?
Speaker 2:right, because someone would have had to have actually someone would have had to have carried him there.
Speaker 3:yeah, so I don't get it. Yeah, I also. There's two aspects of um. There's two trailing spouses, basically in these two episodes. There's Eve following maze to hell and she has no plans, and then there's Chloe following Lucifer to heaven Ah, and she has no plans. Right, and I'm really uncomfortable with both of those because in both cases, they haven't really thought about what they're going to do, and some of that is, I think, the writers have no idea what the hell they're going to do, and so they just kind of, you know, like, should I take tricksy out of school? Like you know? I mean the, the, the, those questions, and she's, you know, stir crazy and going, going um and being really bored and all of that which is reasonable. This she's. She's not used to having time on her hands. That's, yeah, fine, but there's two examples of this, of like why didn't either of them assert themselves?
Speaker 2:I mean, I feel like the, the writers were more interested in the mirroring that the, the leading spouse, actually doesn't want to go in the first place, you know, and so this was just like an additional symptom of the fact that this is maybe not the right choice. Um, is that they this the trailing spouse? I feel like that mirroring was was more important than the actual agency of the trailing spouse in either case, but yeah, it's, it's a worthy question it's just I can kind of comprehend it on well.
Speaker 3:I mean so on chloe's part not thinking about it is partially because she's not familiar with the world's celestials. And she had that, like you know she. She learned that what she thought she knew about her parents was wrong and that her mom wanted to support her dad, right. So this is like a grand gesture she did, and then she didn't really think through the after as much with eve and I I don't know, I guess they've written her.
Speaker 2:I mean, we see in the future, we see in future episodes that Eve has this thing, not just future episodes. We've seen in the past with Lucifer where she's like this is her pattern she remakes herself to make her partner happy.
Speaker 2:That's how she was taught to To behave, yeah, yeah To be. So that actually does make a certain amount of sense, although the the I'll throw dinner parties just makes her look stupid, which that's unbecoming, I feel like, on the part of the writers, because I don't feel it as though they have done that to her in the past. Have done that to her in the past. She has seemed naive at times, but never stupid, but never stupid.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that, like I'll throw a dinner parties in hell. That just sounded stupid to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean like if she'd said like, oh, you've got thousands of siblings and like I'd love to meet all of them and so, like you know, if she led with that instead of it, like I'll meet all the souls. But it, yeah, it does it, just it's rushed yeah hence what I said at the very beginning nobody's favorite season, yeah, which is a shame because I, like I, was so looking forward to it yeah, um, I carved out time in my work weeks.
Speaker 2:I was like to vacation time so that I could watch it when it first dropped yeah yeah, in fact, when it first dropped and I was seeing, like you know, everybody was like who is this chick with the boots? You know the person who turns out to be Rory. I even I saw like a, like a whisper on the internet that was like I bet it's, I bet it's their, their kid from the future. And I was like please don't let it be their kid from the future.
Speaker 1:Please don't let it be their kid from the future.
Speaker 2:Like I just was like I really don't, that is not the storyline I want. And so I was like deeply disappointed when that reveal actually came through, because I just was like the moment I saw somebody suggest that might be it, I was like no, no, no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, part of my issue with that and we'll get into it further. But Lucifer has made it clear from the very beginning that he has no interest in having children and like I, just I want media to take that seriously. Like I want media to take like the for the people who say I don't want children, they're fine, they're not for me. I personally want to be child-free. I want media to not immediately undercut that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, and like I say that as someone who knew from babyhood that I wanted to be a mom, I have always known that I wanted children. There was never any question in my mind whatsoever that I was going to become a parent and there is plenty of media for me. Yeah, there is no media out there for the people who say I don't want children. I like children, I like them in my life. He cares deeply about Trixie, even though he jokes about her not being, about being an urchin and all of that, right. But I would much more appreciate a story about because we don't have it. We don't have those narratives about it being okay that that is how your life works and you like that. You want that, yeah, life works and it you.
Speaker 2:you like that, you want that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that also opposite, where we don't.
Speaker 2:We don't believe people, especially women, but people in general. We don't believe them.
Speaker 3:You'll change your mind you tell them Exactly. So when I was in my twenties, I worked at a boys and girls club and there was a woman there who worked in the library, who loved kids, didn't want her own, and I remember being befuddled. I'm like cause I thought that if you didn't want her own and I, I remember being befuddled. I'm like because I thought that if you didn't want kids, it's because you didn't like them. But she clearly loved kids, she worked with them and she's like I just don't want any of my own. And I remember being like I, I don't understand, like it just didn't. It just didn't compute for me, and that's part of what I'm talking about. Like I should be like a 20 something who is relatively savvy, should be able to compute the idea that you can like something without wanting it for yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we certainly don't have any models of that.
Speaker 3:Yes, and in the same way. It's another thing that really drives me nuts. It's similar to there's a hand waving about things like fertility as well. Our cousin pointed this out to me once, about how anytime there's a film where infertility is a part of the story, they're magically pregnant by the end, and this feels like a similar sort of thing. He never had to worry about it because it didn't happen, but clearly he really wanted this because otherwise it wouldn't have self-actualized working. Yeah, yeah, so we can get into that more in future episodes, but it's.
Speaker 3:I get a little frustrated at the fans who get who say that the end of the show was a betrayal of of everything that came before. And we'll get to that and we'll get to what they're talking about, cause I do not agree. They say it's a betrayal of his thing about like free will, and you know I disagree with that entirely. But I think that they're fair in saying that season six is, as as a whole in terms of Lucifer story arc is a bit of a betrayal on what's come before because of things like this taking the devil at his word that he doesn't want kids, the minute he learns like, oh, he's all in and you know what that's. That's fantastic If that's what happens for someone who finds themselves in a situation where they're going to be a parent without having planned it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's a. It is a very different sort of thing because of the self-actualization that they have given us. You're right, that makes it actually a very different kind of scenario. It's not the same as if a human man realizes that he has inadvertently fathered a child. It is not the same because in this case, with this character, with this universe, the way they've set it up, in this case, with this character, with this universe, the way they've set it up, that necessitates that in some way he wanted to be a parent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I mean to be fair. Lucifer has made it like it's been very clear he doesn't know what he wants often, and and that's that's part of his journey. But why did it have to be this? You know, yeah, and so much of what's going on is his, his daddy issues and his feeling abandoned by his father, and so they wanted to to explore that with the idea of him having a child who feels abandoned by him.
Speaker 3:And I get that, I get that the story beat of that and the satisfaction of that moment, but it just doesn't fit with what's come before, with the devil character that we have known for five years, so far, that we have known for five years, so far. So it's, you know, there are some joys coming up within this season and I don't want to be like, oh, season six, because there are some things I'm very glad that we're going to be seeing, but it was not the ending that this story could have had, yeah. So I do want to talk a little bit about I think the best scene in both of these is when lucifer and busty are singing.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty awesome duet. That was going to be actually a piece of my fluff, because, oh, it's just fine, it's fine, but when he's, when ellis, sings in that scene, it almost becomes sort of an american accent, which I guess is what happens. I don't know something about the the lid, I don't know, but the enunciation kind of sounds more American when singing, and so it sounds like Michael like.
Speaker 2:when I'm watching it, I'm like how does he sound like Michael? Michael, which is really unwelcome and odd response from me as I'm watching. Yeah, but what did you want to say?
Speaker 3:about it so well. I, I love their, I love their dance, their, their, their musical interlude, yeah. And then the conversation with Brian you know once, once Busty has removed her wig was really lovely. I really appreciated what Brian was saying about feeling insecure about being a pretty drag queen.
Speaker 3:And there is, there's so much discourse about drag queens right now Right now in particular, yeah, yeah, and it's an art form that I don't completely understand. But as I was watching, I was thinking like how gorgeous her makeup was Actually all of the makeup that we see and the amount of work that would go into that level of makeup and just how fabulous she looked. That level of makeup and just how fabulous she looked and the idea that there's this sense that if you're going to, you know, put that full face of makeup on and sing in sequins, you know, with a huge wig, that would be supreme confidence. And yet there's still things that one could feel insecure about and that it just was a. I felt like a very lovely moment in this, like a in the center of this, this episode that had me at the end, when we learn who the killer is, feeling terrible for poor Brian.
Speaker 2:Who's lost his mentor and his lover?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and oh my goodness, how, how heartbreaking, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree that that whole exposition or it wasn't, it was a conversation with Brian and and Lucifer too, and thinking about that that was, I agree it was really beautiful and you know so we have someone in the writer's room who was like let's get magic in there somehow, and there's somebody in the writer's room who said let's get drag in there somehow. And I think that sort of thinking about that question about who you really are, who you're meant to be like within the, by using drag as a sort of met, as a vehicle for that conversation, I think that was really interesting and useful. I mean, I think using drag there served several kind of different goals. One of them was just milquetoast Carol's discomfiture, but but it was much, much bigger and deeper than that. And I I do think that that was the, even the specifics of the way that Brian was talking about.
Speaker 2:Like, I always play the humor because I was afraid if I just went out as beautiful that people would laugh at me, not in a good way. Yeah, Like that deeply resonated. Oh really, I really heard that. I really heard that, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and I, I had forgotten that that's.
Speaker 3:I mean, I had remembered that there was the, the there's a time in a drag club, but I'd forgotten that scene, and so, even before that, I had been thinking she looks fabulous during the song, and so I mean, so that's, that's.
Speaker 3:Something too is now and some of that is I have been trying to deprogram myself from the idea of what society considers beautiful.
Speaker 3:What society considers beautiful. So, um, I was mentioning, before we started recording, uh, we were at the Wisconsin state fair today and I love people watching at places like the state fair, but every everywhere I turn, I kind of wanted to, and I've been encouraging myself to be like, look at how beautiful that person is, look how beautiful they are of all shapes and sizes, backgrounds, haircuts, clothing, everything like seeing the beauty in every human. And so I know that that, because I've been trying very hard to do that, I'm much more likely to notice beauty that might be overlooked by people who are not necessarily grappling with with, uh, their relationship with what society calls beautiful. But that that to me, like struck me also that, brian, you know, without the wig he's like I'm afraid to go out as beautiful because people might laugh, and not for the right and in the wrong way, whereas I had. My immediate reaction was just like oh my God, she looks fabulous. I want a pink sequined dress for myself.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's really, really interesting because that sort of people laughing at me. I was talking to a friend of mine fairly recently. We were talking about the fact that you know, there's some things that we have been taught to denigrate in ourselves so much that if someone were to say to someone, were to praise them, praise that aspect, whatever it was, we would think they were making fun of it. So, like I was born with a cross, I I've had surgeries and like whatever, and the glasses hide it mostly, but I'm so self-conscious about it. And so if someone were to say to me, like actually I think your cross-conscious about it. And so if someone were to say to me, like actually I think your cross-eyes kind of cute, my reaction would be screw you, Don't make fun of me. Like that would be my reaction. If somebody were to say that and that's what was kind of like activated in me listening to Brian tell- the story yeah.
Speaker 3:When I was in college, I was seeing a therapist on campus who at one point told me that he thought that my emotions were one of the best parts of me. I stopped seeing him because I had been taught that my being emotional was the worst thing about me. Yeah, yeah. So I definitely I hear that, I hear that, I hear that and, uh, that's I'm glad for that moment in in this, in these episodes. And you know, I know Brian is fictional, but I hope Brian's okay and that busty is just bringing down the house every night. And I also thought to myself, like what would my drag name be if I could do drag? Did you come up with something? Well, there's your pet and the name of the street you grew up on. So way back when I was first out of college, someone said that, like, my porn name would be Bonanza Tamarack, which I actually actually think sounds more like a drag queen name. Yeah, so you know, bonanza Tamarack.
Speaker 2:Okay, I like it. I like it. So I guess would that make me Pixie Briarclift.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's fantastic Bonanza Tamarack and Pixie Briarclift double feature.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, we've been talking for almost an hour, so I'm going to say my piece of fluff I already shared earlier was that when ellis sings, it sounds like michael. Do you have something that you want to share?
Speaker 3:yes, during the dinner party. It's just a tiny little moment. Maze picks up a deviled egg and like, brings it close to her face and goes and like. I don't know, I don't even know why. I noticed it because it's going on in the background while eve is talking to amenadiel and linda. Now they're doing the the classic um uh sitcom table setup, which I hate. It's just like. I know it's easier for the cameras, but nobody eats dinner like that, but I. It was just like leslie ann, I love that you're on even when you're not on. Thank you, that is a perfect moment. Yes, I like that very much. So I think that's all my fluff. I'm sure I had a couple others, but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll take it. Okay, all right. Well, I'll see you soon to continue our uh explorations of season six. Well, until next time, pixie, briarclift, all right.
Speaker 1:bonanza, tamarack, tamarack, tamarack, all right, all right our theme song is feral angel waltz by kevin mcleod from incompetechcom, licensed under creative commons by attribution 4.0 license. Visit the show notes for the url. I am an artificially generated voice powered by narrakeepcom. Lucifer is a warner brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.