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Lightbringers: Illuminating the Deeper Meaning of the Crime-solving Devil TV Show
Tracie and Emily are two sisters who really love the show Lucifer. We're rewatching the series two episodes at a time and taking the time to illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil tv show. Yes, we are overthinking it.
WARNING: There are definitely spoilers. If you haven't watched the whole series (all 6 seasons), listen at your own risk!
Lightbringers: Illuminating the Deeper Meaning of the Crime-solving Devil TV Show
Lucifer 321 + 322 "Anything Pierce Can Do I Can Do Better" & "All Hands on Decker"
When you aren’t binging, “Anything Pierce Can Do I Can Do Better” & “All Hands On Decker,” are painful episodes to watch. Lucifer’s obliviousness is torture to Chloe Decker, who simply wants to be seen and loved.
Tracie gets her Toms mixed up, Emily cannot abide the notion of a 20-min delay in Los Angeles, and the incongruous hair texture of actor and character are once again noticed. We think about #MeToo vis a vis the male water polo team who show up at Chloe’s bachelorette party and agree that undergraduates are basically toddlers.
As always, the sisters spend some time appreciating the beauty of Tom Ellis, especially as he portrays devastated Lucifer, and as always, they find ridiculousness to make one another laugh (the Pierce/Chloe Decker ship will forever be known as Pecker). There’s also no small amount of brain space devoted to the exploration of what mortality provides humanity and why art so often imagines immortals losing it when faced with the truth of death.
Mentioned in this episode:
Scythe series by Neal Schusterman
The Good Place
Memento Mori
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 3:I am here with my sister, tracy Guy Decker yes, hyphen, and I'm here with my sister, emily Guy Birken.
Speaker 2:no, hyphen, and together we are lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show. And, yes, we are overthinking it. Yeah, so today, tracy, we are going to be talking about episodes 321 and 322. Anything Pierce can do, I can do better. And all hands on Decker. Yes, so yes.
Speaker 3:These two episodes are like both fun and also just heartbreaking. Yes, the effect that I mentioned in our last episode of my being forced to take my time so that we can talk about it is really like it's much more painful show. You know, just like push through all of the different ones.
Speaker 2:Well, and what's interesting too is that these were when it was still on Fox, and so it was coming out weekly.
Speaker 2:People had to wait. They intended for you to really feel it. Yeah, because I was just talking with my book club about this, about the difference between how we consume television pre-Netflix, streaming and all of that and how we consume it now, and how that's changed, how they write it and they know you're going to watch it in a binge or so. For one thing, they have to get their consistency. Their consistency department has got to be much more, much beefier than it was. Yeah, yeah, agreed, not that. That. Is that what they call it like the consistency department? Is it like the department of redundancy department?
Speaker 3:I don't know, having never worked on a major television production. I don't know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I know it is someone's job to check things like consistency of where someone is standing, because they don't necessarily film scenes all at once and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I feel like, whoever that was, it's supposed to make sure that the time of day matches kind of fouled up in these two episodes, but they fell asleep all the time. Yeah, all right, I did not notice that. Where did you notice that it's day, it's night, it's night, it doesn't matter. I mean because the I think the B role of like Lux is nighttime, mm gotcha, anyway, it really like, in the whole scheme of things, not a big deal, yeah, so so let's talk about everything Pierce can do, or I can do better. Oh, that's a painful one.
Speaker 3:It's so hard because I'm I am so squarely team Lucifer. Yes, I love him so much, I know, and he's so clueless in this episode and cruelly clueless.
Speaker 2:You know, like it's not just that he's clueless, because I mean it is. I mean like someone can be clueless and that can cause cause, like a cruel cause, cruelty, and that's what's happening. But he's also intentionally clueless in that he has people who can help him understand and he refuses to let that happen.
Speaker 3:The, the, the actual, I mean. The conclusion that we are led to believe explicitly so is that facing the reality is so painful for him that he will do anything to avoid it, which is you know that that fits with people who well, that fits with narcissism.
Speaker 2:So you know, people who are narcissistic will do anything to avoid the the the truth about the narcissistic injury, but that's not what's going on here Exactly.
Speaker 3:It's, you know, the so afraid of rejection, yeah, so afraid of rejection that he can't actually face the fact Vulnerable or genuine.
Speaker 3:Well, he can't face the fact that he actually has genuine feelings for this person, I mean, which he's already I felt like he's already come to grips with and sort of felt like it was unfair to put that on her. We've, we've you and I've talked about that. That's not what the show runners are showing us in these episodes. These episodes they are showing us a fear, like a paralyzing fear of rejection and for whatever well, it's not, for whatever reason. Like that is harder for me to watch than the sort of tortured, you know, like the classic, like we can't be together because it would be wrong, but I love you. That sort of dance feels tortured but somehow noble, which I know. I've been conditioned to feel that way about it. Yeah, this dance of I'm terrified, you're going to reject me, even though we as viewers know she isn't going to reject him. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's just, it's just hard to watch.
Speaker 2:Mm hmm, mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Well, and this watch through and I think, because I watched it so quickly, I was very susceptible to the common complaint that Chloe saying yes to Pierce was out of character and that this was like the show runners like forcing them together and like we've talked about how this love triangle doesn't work.
Speaker 2:However, having seen what she's going through at that dinner, when he's lit all the candles, he's got the roses and he's just like see anything he can do, I can do better and her like devastation is I actually is the first time where I really put myself in her place and I was just like I can totally see where there's this guy that she really does like, who has been making her happy, who is steady and dependable and who is showing with actions how he cares about her and not words. And the person that she is kind of hung up on has made it clear over and over and over again he's not dependable. In a moment of like vulnerability, she'd be like yeah, you know what? Yes, let's do this, let me, I'm gonna move towards the thing that feels sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and she even. I mean I actually again, you know I'm not a huge Lauren German fan, but I feel like I owe Ms German an apology because I think in this season, which is not one of my favorite seasons- no.
Speaker 3:Tom Holland, tom Welling I can't get the toms right. Tom Holland is totally different. He's a different guy. Tom Welling, in these two episodes, lauren German nails it. I mean, I think her makeup artists maybe didn't, because when, when Ella is like I'm either hungover, I've been crying, and then she takes them off and she's like, oh, what's wrong? And I was like she's got funny my makeup on. Yeah, but that's an aside. German herself, as you say, in that scene she's like really loving it at Luxe. When she was like I thought we were just gonna talk and he was like I just you know. And then she starts to think like wow, maybe this is it.
Speaker 3:He's jealous enough. You know that he sees how much I mean to him and how important I am to him and you know, maybe we can actually make this work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and her delivery of why are you doing this to me? Because it really does, at that point, feel like it is something he's doing to her, to her, yeah, yeah and oh gosh.
Speaker 3:Well, because his delivery made her a prize in a contest. Yes, as opposed to a human being or you know another soul with whom he feels a connection and wants to, you know, reinforce that connection. Yeah, I felt like she really, she really nailed it in that scene. And then again to your point of why would she say yes, that little like monologue, it's not a monologue because they gave us the bus driver to be listening on the bus. When the other women have gotten off, I bought it. Yeah, I really, I believed it. Like why did I even say yes, this is not in care. Like she says, this is not a character for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And here's why. And I totally bought it.
Speaker 2:It made sense.
Speaker 3:The thing that then didn't make sense to me though I know for our storytelling purposes why we needed it was the I'm giving you the ring back like we're over, or that was the implication where it felt more like the response from that soliloquy that wasn't would have been let's slow down. Slow down. Yeah, yeah, like this is way too fast. Like I care about this person and there are lots of great things and I, you know, maybe even love them and maybe one day this is the right thing, but holy cow.
Speaker 2:I like I shouldn't jump in so quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that felt like the actual conclusion, not like here's the ring back, we're done. Though, for storytelling purposes we needed to have that break so that Welling's Cain could like go for it, go for it yeah. Yeah, we needed that.
Speaker 2:But so yeah, although I mean, I think it may also be that she realized that she's not really in love with him, like but it's not explicit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't get that from that soliloquy. It's not explicit. From that soliloquy I got, I'm rushing into this because I'm unhappy and because I'm trying to make myself be someone I'm not. Yeah, yeah, but I took that to be the rushing, not the actual.
Speaker 2:Not the actual relationship. Fair, fair I'll give you that.
Speaker 3:So the thing, one of the things I want to talk about, that I feel like another thing that is a core element of the show as a whole, which also shows up really beautifully and satisfyingly in these two episodes, is the mirroring of the case and whatever's happening in the drama of their lives. And so, like the moment of recognition when Lucifer is actually explaining what happened and why the dancer did what he did, because Lucifer's explaining about his own relationship with the rival or moving things out of the way or whatever, I thought that like again, it just maybe it was a little heavy handed but I liked it. I found it very satisfying to have him sort of like and the way that Ellis delivers the kind of dawning recognition through his facial expression just works for me. Yeah, I mean, everything about something else works for me, but I think we've established that after I mean how many episodes we've put out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 20, some. Yeah, but that sort of dawning recognition was, I bought it all and I found it exceedingly satisfying. Yeah especially.
Speaker 2:The thing that really struck me this time around was the fact that the dancer, miguel, sounded like he was like top of his profession, like there's no reason why he should have felt so insecure about his affection for Amber, so like I don't think I've remembered noticing this the first time through. But his there was something like should they show the play bill? And it was like featuring Miguel and Reyna and like so he was like the big top billing, and so that draws yet another parallel where it's just like, seriously, Lucifer, why can't you see that you have a lot to offer and actually you're diminishing yourself by thinking that you don't in the same way that this.
Speaker 3:I mean like this guy made himself a murderer Right when All he had to do was say All he had to do was say, hey, let's go out for a little clenching coffee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And poor Amber. Poor Amber, I mean, like she, she cared for him too. She's lost that opportunity. She lost the mentor that she really, like, was learning from and felt good about. You know, like, oh my goodness. And you know the married man who was having a relationship with Reyna not quite so poor, poor him. Just like, dude, you are married, but he truly loved her. Yeah, I seem to so like you know, you feel for him as well. You know, for whatever could have or would have been, you know, one would hope that he would do the right thing and end his marriage so that he's not stringing his wife along. But anyway, I just I appreciated the, that parallel too, because I felt like they did a good job of finding someone who would similarly be like, seriously, why, why can't you just not be insecure about this? Cause you're kind of awesome, you know.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, and it's funny too. I mean that, that again, the look on Ellis' face when Linda says, but what do you desire? And he says I want her to choose me, which becomes a through line for the remaining seasons, like that idea of choosing. But, you know, with this sort of welling up of tears and just just the the two orval. In fact, I watched it and I was like Emily loves him right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I may have rewound and watched that scene a couple of times.
Speaker 3:because Emily loves a broken Lucifer, I do.
Speaker 2:Lucifer doesn't say it is my favorite, lucifer.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So that face and and when Linda's like, then go it and like clearly that's the right thing to do. We've seen it like in the case, we've seen it here, like Linda's made it plain, like, and then it was a little less than believable that he would be standing in the window like to witness the proposal, but I went with it that that's storytelling.
Speaker 2:short, short cut.
Speaker 3:It is. I mean, yeah, and I and I filled in the back like he saw the motorcycle out front and so he walked around and it's still creepy, but whatever, I free you for it. Yeah, yeah, that that moment. And then that same sort of like dawning understanding in the second episode that we're talking about, which I feel like this use of Dan. I guess we have had him in this way, but like as that foil to Lucifer. We've had that a couple of times, this one in particular, where Dan gets the message from the case in ways that Lucifer fails to. I found that also really satisfying, right Like when the murderer comes home with the dog and Dan is sitting there in the dark. That's a total Lucifer move right.
Speaker 3:Like that is a thing that Lucifer does on the regular, and the way that Dan has kind of like adapted the Luciferisms yeah, I found that exceedingly satisfying. And then, even when he like decides he's gonna go tell Charlotte what he wants, he does it in a Dan sort of delivery but it works and like. So that was like for as a viewer, like seeing the clear messages that we're getting of what the thing to do is and then seeing it work, but seeing Lucifer like still unable to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even like once at the end, once he knows like she's kind of toying with her ringless finger and he starts to tell her, realizes that she's not wearing the ring and, like you know, kind of she indicates that that's over, and so he's like, okay, nevermind, I'm not gonna tell you anything. And it's like Did you learn? Anything, yeah, yeah, but I mean thinking about, like the level of fear a normal human would have, you know, and so multiply it by whatever, for Celeste she'll having the same kind of kind of fear.
Speaker 2:Right right, I do wanna talk quickly about Charlotte in these two episodes. Well, for one thing, I feel like Amenadiel kind of missed missed the memo that she was latching onto this for the wrong reason.
Speaker 3:She is hilarious, though. Oh, my goodness, I need your bike for a minute. Don't worry, it's for God.
Speaker 2:It's for God, my family and I just recently went to see Blues Brothers in the theater, and so I'm just we're on a mission from God.
Speaker 3:I had the same thought. I haven't seen it recently, but when she said, don't worry, it's for God, I had the same thought. I saw, you know the glasses and the yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, so I was thinking about that, which I'm like. Of course, the writing staff is Blues Brothers. I'm sure that was intentional, but she's very clearly like is focusing on like okay, this is my way out of hell, okay, I gotta succeed at this, and she's like bringing all my type A success to this.
Speaker 3:Right, right, I'm gonna win yeah.
Speaker 2:But the thing that I also really noticed in these two episodes and I kind of would like to like watch two episodes back to back one from season two where she's the goddess inhabiting Charlotte Richards, and one, like one of these two episodes because I noticed she seemed younger in these episodes in a way that I can't quite put my finger on how she's different, what's different in her delivery or any of that but there was something timeless in terms of like ancient timeless when she was the goddess, whereas here, you know like, yeah, this is a woman in her late 30s or early 40s who was flailing, you know like, and that was just really cool, like realizing that. I'm just like, damn, trisha Elfer is underappreciated actress and she needs to be in everything Cause she is amazing. Yeah, yeah, I have a little crush on Trisha Elfer.
Speaker 3:She's pretty awesome, she is amazing.
Speaker 2:And she can ride a motorcycle, I mean. I mean I assume in there was a stunt ride, she can.
Speaker 3:But like. But her stunt level is probably like a 20 year old man. You know cause she's so tall and lean and beautiful Anyway okay.
Speaker 3:So Trisha, elfer and Charlotte and Amina Deal like not getting what's going wrong with this and actually, like they also the alliance between Amina Deal and Lucifer right, like, like it's God's will that you be with Chloe and Lucifer's like don't ruin it, I'm just glad we're on the same team, you know like, but the, the alliances are not aligned even though they're allied. It's really, it's really interesting with that, okay. So, speaking of alignment, the scene when, when Charlotte tells Amina Deal to like tap into his own insecurities, and that scene at Luxe when Amina Deal like plants the seeds of like you're really could die any minute now, that was pretty cool, like that was pretty. And what was really interesting to me is that, like all of us watching it are like, yeah, like that's what it means to be human. Yeah, that is like like the good place was all about that, right, yeah, but similarly right, like when Michael in the good place not Michael, not Tom Ellis as Michael the archangel, but Michael the architect, the demon architect the good place when he confronts mortality.
Speaker 2:Potential mortality.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he has like a complete meltdown. And so there's something really satisfying and interesting about like in in this sort of dramatic irony, sort of sense of watching a human being portraying an immortal coming through what it means to be human, and there's something like really like I find that particular vein of storytelling satisfying and like validating, which I guess is why we do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we the like there's something I was thinking about last week when I talked about how to pierce it must feel like he's the only real human being. And so it's interesting because, like we as humans, we can't actually be in that situation, but we like to imagine what it would be like and then, like, do the reverse engineer, imagining what it would be like to suddenly have your mortality? Yeah, and how like? There's so many stories like this about this. There's a there's a fantastic YA series called Sive by Neil Shusterman, which I think I might have mentioned to you when I read the first one, because Neil Shusterman is Jewish and it felt like there was a lot of Jewish thoughts on death and mortality.
Speaker 2:And it's basically human beings after they have solved the problem of death, so like if something happens to you or you get hit by a bus or something, you become dead-ish, but they just need to get you to a hospital within like a couple of hours and they can revive you. So the only way to truly die is to not be revived, like past the point of no return, and that doesn't happen. And so, because you can't have immortal humans forever, they have sides which are the people who cull random humans to just make sure that they maintain the population density, and so thinking about, like one of the things that they brought up in that book was the fact that art was more meaningful before death was solved and that you know, there's art and all purpose had more meant more. We spent so much time grappling with, like the meaning and the fact that meaning only comes about because there is an end.
Speaker 3:Right, I mean it's like a driving force for a memento mori, right? Like remember that you will die is like a mantra of sorts. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because I actually have the thought, you know, just looking, projecting forward, knowing, like, which of these characters will end up in heaven and have, and then there's, there's a like a suggestion of crossover with the good place which we'll get to, which I love, I love, but that also suggests that that this heaven has the same problem as the good places, heaven, in that if things are eternal, then there is no meaning. I find it like it's fascinating. And then it's also fascinating because we've never actually seen a menedial express any of these insecurities himself. We've seen him express the insecurities about losing God's favor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the actual mortality, you're right. Yeah, I've not seen that.
Speaker 2:And so it's interesting to think about that. Particularly with an angel like now, they can be eliminated, which is what happened to Uriel with Azrael's blade. So that's it, they're gone, there's, there's, there's, there's no afterlife. But what does mortality even mean to an angel, right? You know what does it mean to him? That he knows he's going to go to heaven or hell, right? So why is that scary to him? You know, and yeah, I appreciated that scene very much, Like props to wellings acting there Like he was just like yes, it's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there was that dawning that same facial. Yeah, that dawning of understanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and considering how Machiavellian he is, you think he recognizes being played, but it's also he has been so single minded Like this is what I want, this is what I want, for it's got to be at least a thousand of his thousands of years. He's forgotten what it actually means in some ways, you know, because I was thinking also it's been so long since he felt the fear of mortality. Because even if he felt it when he couldn't be killed, you know the first 50 years like eventually it were off, right. It's just, it's fascinating. It's fascinating to think about and consider like does that ever, could that ever go away? I've really appreciated that, I do. I want to talk about May's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's where I wanted to go next. That's where I wanted to go next to, actually, yes, may's and Charlotte as like foils of one another, which clearly everyone seemed to see that well, except maybe Ella, that like, if Chloe got real drunk and thought about it too hard, she wouldn't go through with the wedding. Like May's clearly thought that that that was the case, but so did Charlotte. Right, charlotte helped her along. I remember just really deeply enjoying Leslie and Brandt in like the sweater dress and the pearls the first time I saw this. This time, like because I am savoring it a little more, the incongruity of it stood out all the more. Like whoa, that is just not. Like where did she even find that stuff? Like that was not in May's closet.
Speaker 2:Other thing I love is it when she and Linda about start fighting? She takes off her earrings.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, I did notice that Linda ended up with the black water polo player, but that was an interesting little nod to Linda's Attractions, mm hmm, her type.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do want to say something a little gross about like okay, so she's got to deal with the water polo team and my immediate thought is like what have they done?
Speaker 3:And hopefully it's something like Vandalism and not raping someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah and then okay, so that's icky, so like, okay, let's assume vandalism, public urination while they're they're drinking. I don't know something. You know, not a big deal. You know they had too much to drink after celebrating. You know their, their their winning water polo match, but then she lets them off. She's in a position of authority If they come do sexual stuff for her friends, for a bachelorette party.
Speaker 3:That ain't okay either. And let's not forget that they are undergrads. Yes, because they're from the whatever state university yeah, malibu state. So these are undergraduate boys, so we've been 22 and younger, 22 and younger. And these women are all well mazes, you know thousands of years old and, like Linda, charlotte, chloe, are all meant to be in their mid 30s to early 40s. I think Ella's a little younger, maybe like late 20s, early 30s, but still undergraduates are frigging babies.
Speaker 2:They are infants, they're toddlers. I mean, you see them and it's just like don't run with scissors.
Speaker 3:They are not. They're not sexual conquests for adult people.
Speaker 2:I do have to say Linda's comments really liked him. He smelled like chlorine and butterscotch, which does not in any way make it sound like he's mature enough to be with the 30s or 40s.
Speaker 3:I mean, he was a swimmer.
Speaker 2:So well, yeah, but chlorine and butterscotch fudge are not too sense that I would put on a silver fox. Let's say Swimmer, swimmer. Swimmer.
Speaker 3:Maybe the butterscotch fudge is actually those Werther's originals. That's like grandma candies. That's a little in the gold foil.
Speaker 2:Not saying it, but maybe those are just butterscotch. They're not butterscotch fudge.
Speaker 3:Excuse me so.
Speaker 2:so yeah, and that was when did this episode come out? I mean, I think it was, oh, I'm not sure. It must have been.
Speaker 3:It had to have been post me too, because me too was 2018 maybe, yeah. And me too, was like late 2017 because the season three and the show started in 16 2016.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so yeah, because I was. My first thought was like oh, maybe, maybe they wouldn't have done this. Post me too.
Speaker 3:But it's actually an interesting point, though, because, because of the nature of the power, usually in gender difference, like it is still socially acceptable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It is still socially acceptable for us to talk about women kind of objectifying and exploiting men Men? Yeah, because of the yeah, I'm not saying it's okay, no, but there are reasons. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I like that's one of the reasons why it bothered me is that the me too movement is part of what helped me understand how sexual politics can negatively affect men and how often men are raped, but then by women and so like, and that's that's one of the things where I was just like I wish they'd taken a little bit more time with this, but you know it's also yeah, yeah like if it had been like some sort of like male review company that was on charges of like public indecency or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, where, as opposed to like undergrads, undergrads, yeah, but you know, like I, actually this is an episode of.
Speaker 2:there's not a whole lot of episodes from season three that I go back to, but this is one of them because I love the, I love the party, I love Lucifer channeling Lucinda.
Speaker 3:Because that's what Dan calls him. Yeah, I noticed that too. There's also that's the very final scene when Lucifer is like I need someone I can depend on, and Dan's like the irony is actually lost on you as well. Yeah, and then he just keeps going until he's like oh, I hear it now. Yeah, that's not what he says, but that's there's something really like the whole series to this point, like in Lucifer realizing what is in the way Mm, hmm, you know, yeah, besides the whole celestial drama, but actually within his interpersonal skills, what's in the way?
Speaker 2:The other thing I really like in this episode is when Dan calls him out, saying like you think Chloe is just her job, like you don't even call her Chloe, you call her the detective. And he's like it's endearing which it is. It is endearing, but Dan has an excellent point Like she's committed to her job, but that's not all she is, like there is more to her and you need to like see her as a full human being.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking about that and that scene that we, that we both love, on the beach. When he's like you deserve someone better, someone who sees that every crime scene breaks your heart and appreciates your boring middle name and the like, whatever. When she actually feels truly seen by him, mm hmm, which is the moment that they, you know that she initiates a kiss, that she feels the closest to him, when she feels that he does see him Sorry, he does see her pronouns man. So it's really it's interesting to bring it back here, because that that was, I mean, part of the reason that she was spurred to kiss him in that moment was because it was. It felt unusual, mm hmm.
Speaker 2:I will say I absolutely love in anything Pierce can do. I can do better. When Dan finds out that Chloe and Pierce have broken up their epic crime scene, and Lucifer is immediately on like this is why you should not take him back, and Dan is like quietly, like I'm with you, buddy, but I'm staying out of this. Yeah, and there's also the moment when Pierce comes to talk to Chloe while they're in the conference room and Lucifer, dan and Ella all like come closer to the windows. They can hear what's happening. I don't know if you notice that. It's just like like in lockstep.
Speaker 3:They're all like yep and I'm like I'm in that moment as well. But now she's totally Dears Pekka. Yeah, so now she's totally team Pekka. But maybe it's less actually about the partner and more about Chloe. She wants. Chloe to be happy. I don't know she. She clearly is like Charlotte. What are you doing, Mm? Hmm, you know, when she sees Chloe's face on the bus.
Speaker 2:Well, and one of the things she says is like I only have brothers. I've always wanted to have a sister, I've always wanted to to plan a bachelorette party. And that's what what gets Chloe to agree. Right.
Speaker 3:You're gonna pull the sister card Right yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what I'm thinking Like. She just feels this genuine connection and sisterly affection for Chloe and so, like when she's rooting for Deckerstar it's not that she doesn't like Lucifer, Like she, she she clearly does, she clearly does but he's a weirdo, he is a weirdo. You know. And then seeing how he has upset Chloe, let her down through the years, like yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And also Ella was a fan of Pierce's even when from the beginning. Even when, like he didn't deserve fans. Yeah, ella was a fan of his, so that also. Yeah, okay, all right, that's resolved in my head, thank, you.
Speaker 2:But there's like what I really like about Ella's characterization is like so at one point she's like you're ruining my bachelor party and I don't remember. You mean Chloe, so that's that's what I said. That's what I said. And what's funny is that even Ella's selfishness is for someone else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's like it's not that it's her bachelor party that she's the center of attention, it's that her, it's her bachelor party that she's planning to have, Right, Like wonderful time to celebrate with her girlfriends. Yeah, Although I had to say I was like looking at all of them chugging alcohol in a moving vehicle Like I'm sorry. In your 20s, maybe these are adult women who have had their stomach betray them.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's funny Because I would be. They would be having you know cleaning issues after I was at the party bus.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'm watching the time and I'm realizing that time has come, that fluffy fluffy time. Fluffy fluffy time At the end of, like bringers, what you got for me today.
Speaker 2:So I got one very small fluff and that is at the beginning of All Hands on Deckor Star. When Amanda Deal and Lucifer are talking and Lucifer's wearing that amazing like silk Ropes and robe thing and devastated and you can see his belly, she's like, yes, please, his hair is so straight. It's like so straight and like on the one hand I like it looks good Like they did a great job with it, but on the other hand I'm like like they had to beat his hair into submission Probably used to like a flat iron or something.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, and I'm just like and how long is not what he would have been doing when he was feeling devastated? Yes, yeah, but Lucifer doesn't have curly hair. Yeah, tom Ellis, tom Ellis has curly hair. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:That's my first one. My second one, also in All Hands on Deckor Star, is there's a point where they are heading. Dan and Lucifer are heading to talk to a suspect and Dan's on the phone. He's like we would have been there 20 minutes earlier if we had someone had enforced us to stop for a wardrobe change. I want to say, like the devil is real. I got it. Angels are walking the earth. They've got wings. Sure, there's a you know millennia year old demon. Absolutely, angels and humans can, can procreate with together. Sure, got it. Kane is still alive. Kane is still alive. Yes, 20 minutes Stopping.
Speaker 2:Change in delay. Stopping to change would only take 20 minutes in Los Angeles. I'm sorry, it's a bridge too far. I am not willing to believe that.
Speaker 3:It would take more than 20 minutes in Baltimore, so yeah, Like absolutely not, that is. That is just completely unrealistic 10 times the size of Baltimore. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And like, even if it were on the way, how long to take the park and get up to the penthouse, and then he'd have to go through his wardrobe figure out what he's going to wear.
Speaker 3:Well, actually, if it's Lucifer, maybe they stopped at a store and he he's wearing new clothes, hmm, Still would take more than 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:But Well, because if he's wearing new clothes, that's even more of a of a wardrobe choice, cause there's like you'd have to look through everything. What looks most like the detective and what he chose doesn't feel like the masculine version of Chloe. I don't know.
Speaker 3:It was like a leather jacket. Yeah, I mean, she does often wear like stupid skinny black jeans and like a like a shell, and then some sort of jacket over time. Okay, that is kind of her standard. All right, but the stupid skinny black jeans that just don't look good on anybody except Lauren German.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay so was that those are my two fluff, so like, yes, I'll swallow it. It's similar to how I bought everything in black panther, with the exception of Martin Freeman's American accent. Couldn't buy. It Was not just just I'm sorry, recast or make him MI six instead of CIA.
Speaker 3:So anyway, yes, mine is. I don't know why in these two episodes and maybe in the maybe it's just I just noticed it now but the costumer is putting Ellis in these brown suits. I do not like the brown. Like they, just I they just don't look good. They I mean, of course they look good because he's wearing them, but they just they don't have the same sort of like luxury. I feel like Ellis's three piece suits in the show usually kind of convey a elitism and a luxury that is obscene, Right, like that's the point. Those brown suits are obscene for a totally different reason. It just don't work for me. I don't know, I do not like the brown suits and all of a sudden I'm like understanding why, like the whole world went crazy when Obama wore that tan suit.
Speaker 2:Like brown suits just don't work, no, obama carried off the tan suit, I will say I mean, okay, one point I would like to to bring up for costuming is that someone, somewhere I don't remember where I read it, was saying that they had a theory that the color of his suits kind of reflected how he was feeling. Oh, and so like he was wearing like very regularly wearing like the black suit with like red accents when he was like on the devil, and then as he's feeling more human, he he ends up wearing like blue and, and you know, a little softer, and then he wears, wears kind of bright suits when he's feeling good, which I'm like that's a shame, because I hate the bright suits almost as much as I hate the brown. Like when he wears like purple and like green, I'm just like I'm sorry, no, this is, it's not Easter to black church, you just can't carry it off. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't know I so. I thought that was an interesting. That is an interesting theory. I would. I'm going to pay attention now to see if there's, if that carries through and I'm going to say I wish they had done it with the Pocket square and yes, Pocket square and tie and stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, even the the the best.
Speaker 3:Where's the tie actually?
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the waistcoat or the socks or the shoes, but like something about that all over brown, like Hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. One last thing before we go. I do want to make sure I clarify something I said last week, which was I was talking about Phil Goldstein and how it was so gross that like he was stepping out on his wife with prostitutes and over there, but I didn't make it clear that my blood was about him stepping out on his wife and not about sex workers. Not about sex workers. The sex workers are fine, you know, that's the sex work is work. Sex work is work, that's right. But the fact that he was stepping out on his wife and she clearly didn't like it, that's what I think.
Speaker 3:The blood with Phil Goldstein is. It is almost more that like he was, so like I just I'm doing this rehab so that I can still do what I want. Yeah, that's what's yeah In my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's not even like I actually have an addiction and this is something I'm struggling with. Yeah, anyway, I just having rewatched last week, I was just like, oh, I need to make sure that I'm clear on that, because I don't want to put that vibe out into the world.
Speaker 3:Sex work is work. Sex work is work. Period Full stop yes, all right. Well, I think we have overthunk it enough.
Speaker 2:We have overthunk it. We even reached into overthinking last week. You know our tendrils go in all directions. I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:Emily are not affiliated with Fox, netflix nor WB. If you liked this episode, subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect.