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Lightbringers: Illuminating the Deeper Meaning of the Crime-solving Devil TV Show
Tracie and Emily are two sisters who really love the show Lucifer. We're rewatching the series two episodes at a time and taking the time to illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil tv show. Yes, we are overthinking it.
WARNING: There are definitely spoilers. If you haven't watched the whole series (all 6 seasons), listen at your own risk!
Lightbringers: Illuminating the Deeper Meaning of the Crime-solving Devil TV Show
Lucifer 511 + 512 "Resting Devil Face" & "Daniel Espinoza: Naked and Afraid"
“Resting Devil Face” is a delightful romp the sisters want to revisit more often. “Daniel Espinoza: Naked and Afraid” may be both of their least favorite.
In “Resting Devil Face,” the celestial siblings’ relationship digs in to the very human experience of realizing one’s parent is vulnerable. In a satisfying dovetailing of the case-of-the-week and the celestial story line, we see the unintended consequences of parenting choices and also receive the Hollywood trope that so many of us still need to hear: you already have what you need to be happy and/or worthy.
“Daniel Espinoza: Naked and Afraid” provides quite a bit of fan service and clues to what is going on through campiness and subtext which neither Emily nor Tracie are particularly skilled at seeing on first-watch. The sisters agree that it takes a certain degree of cruelty to execute such an elaborate and emotionally taxing prank, and neither of them like to think of Lucifer as cruel.
We realize that “a theological aside” could have been the subtitle of this podcast and take a moment to plug our other project, Deep Thoughts About Stupid Sh*t.
Originally published as a YouTube show with different theme music.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects (including Deep Thoughts about Stupid Sh*t), to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah, the plot which they overthink.
Speaker 2:Hi there, hello, I am here with my sister, tracy Guy-Decker. She does use a hyphen.
Speaker 3:I do, it's true, and I'm here with my sister, emily Guy-Burken. No hyphen, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:Trips people up Together. We are Lightbringers where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show. And yes, we're overthinking it, totally overthinking it.
Speaker 3:That's what we do. That's what we do. And today we are overthinking 511 and 512. Is that right? That's correct 511 and 512. So resting devil face and Daniel Espinoza naked and afraid. Yes, daniel Espinoza Naked and Afraid. Yes, so this is the first time I've rewatched Daniel Espinoza Naked and Afraid since the first time I watched it through. Same for me, not when I return to, but we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there. Start at the beginning. It's a very good place to start. So resting devil face.
Speaker 2:Start at the beginning. It's a very good place to start. So Resting Devil Face. So I want to mention that Resting Devil Face starts with the song Believer by Imagine Dragons, which is the favorite song of one of my children. My children tend to have a musical taste that can best be described as earnest young white man on his knees, singing with his eyes closed. And when he first started liking that song I was surprised because I was like where you know, like where did you hear this song? And like I recognize that it was on Lucifer somewhere and I could not remember what episode it was in. So I've been looking for it all this time and finally I was like there it is. But I also want to say was very, very good sound cue and like combination of the the song with the action, which I'm sure is why they did it, because you know they're like all right, united front, and then it's first things first, and then you know, and then they stop, stop the music the cinematography.
Speaker 2:The direction in that first scene is just so delightful, with the slow-mo of them, like walking toward each other and like and the, the, when they, when they do the, the um, as they're walking down the stairs, they like bump bump fists, but sideways, which?
Speaker 3:is like so brotherly, so cute, and like, like, like lucifer, like checking his cuffs, like he always does, and and that's in slow-mo and then in real time with them, like talking, um, you know, in normal time and then slow-mo again and then talking. There's just something really satisfying about that setup especially and and this the setup, and like a minute deals, like you can trust me, I'm with you, and then immediately, immediately, like it doesn't even take a full, he's fine like one minute before. So much for the united front.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's one of the things I really appreciate about this storyline and this episode is it strikes me that the writers have been through the issue of dealing with a parent aging and needing more help, not being as independent, that sort of thing, because it's very much all of those complex emotions, very much the like recreating your childhood roles in the family, where Amenadiel immediately folds and is like but he says he's fine, I'm sure it's okay, and he's the eldest and the youngest rebellious one is the one who's like no, we got to be firm. I had forgotten how delightful this episode was, because I've rewatched it at least a couple of times, but it's not one of the ones that I go back to and I was like oh, it should be, this is fun yeah, it's fun, it's fun and there's a lot of fan service in it.
Speaker 3:Fun, it's fun, and there's a lot of fan service in it too, like in the gym, in the boxing gym. I don't know if you noticed, but I actually paused it.
Speaker 2:Like the ads. They're all things that we've seen in the show. Yeah, there's like top meat and Azaria the singer. Yeah, the singer, the cabin, which was that reality show.
Speaker 3:That's what it was. Yeah, yeah, there was one that I didn't recognize. The top left corner is holla bay. Oh yeah, I know that is so.
Speaker 2:That was um, the rapper who was killed and then taken over by a demon in, uh, the end of season four yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah, just got it yeah so that that was a fun easter egg like fun fan service there with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, uh, so that was pretty cool. Some of the things that, if we're gonna overthink it, like I get where they were going and they had to, you know, they had to really like show us, not just tell us that, like god set gods, it's really hard to use male. No, uh, god set god in this. Okay, we can in this universe.
Speaker 2:God is male. Yeah, and, and we can say his bird is male yes, and so when we say god, we're talking about the character, we're not talking about the actual hashem whatever that is.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, when that's his first, god sets his powers aside so that he can experience what it's like to be like Lucifer and like I get where they're going. And then they had to, like they made it funny, you know, like that he, when they close their eyes, everything disappears, like, but I don't know god would know that I think so.
Speaker 2:I mean, god is all-knowing, yeah and so god would know what it would be like to experience humanity.
Speaker 3:You'd think I mean, I don't, yeah, there's, there was something about that that just didn't quite sit. Yeah, right with me, and like it was useful for storytelling effect insofar as like maze was going to try and kill him and she couldn't if he hadn't sort of set his powers aside and you know, and, and the comedic effect of like him having to go to the bathroom for the first time that one I believed.
Speaker 2:Like that one, I'll give that one. Like not realizing it goes dark when you close your eyes.
Speaker 3:No, but the like, almighty being just being like, yeah, I don't need to worry about that right, and also he knew what it was. It's not like it was like what is this feeling? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. So I appreciated that, you know, and also they needed to continue the. You know he's losing, he's losing it, he's slipping by, literally losing the powers. Oh, that's an interesting metaphor made real Losing it, losing it.
Speaker 2:Anyway, no-transcript. There's no lack of stories about, you know, people dealing with Alzheimer's and dementia and stuff like that, but this is the first one that I've seen that I really felt like I was just, like I could feel this in a way that was different and in part because, you know, I can think of like one or two examples, two examples of of um, and maybe it's cause I saw it when I was a teenager. There's a movie called something like Raising Hope or something like that, with with um, what's her name? Uh, sandra Bullock in it and her father or grandfather has Alzheimer's, but you don't see, you don't meet him until after he's just no longer there. So something about this, about seeing like the he's still the parent you know, and yet he's not, and it's terrifying, like that is really visceral. Yeah, yeah, hope floats.
Speaker 3:That's what it's called. It's called hope floats. Yeah, raising hope was a tv. That was a tv show.
Speaker 3:Yeah it was very different yeah, there's also something in this episode interesting about thinking about sort of who we are inside, right like the, the conversation that when god says to lucifer you're the, why did you choose that face? That's how you see yourself. That I think we haven't. We talked about the fact that they self-actualize, but I don't know that we've really had that spelled out for us before. And having it in that way it asked in that way from God was really to me a very poignant moment. They didn't linger over it, which was fine, but was really really interesting to me in that moment, in sort of in that moment. And then the other piece of sort of I don't, I want, I started to say mental health uh, kind of poignancy, but it's more than that. It's, it is that.
Speaker 3:But it's also just sort of like, like mindset moment is in the, at the very end for maze, when uh, she says yeah, but a demon can't grow a soul, god says, can't she right? And that's sort of like. I mean, in some ways the wizard of oz has been like like we've been getting this message for forever. Like you already have everything you need. Like this is a hollywood trope, but I think we keep coming back to it in hollywood because we need it. Yeah, yeah, you know, like there's this constant, especially in this late stage, capitalism, the culture scape in which we find ourselves, there's this constant sense hellscape, I think. You mean, I was gonna call it that, but it's a shoe fence, but um, there is this, this constant sense that, like, I'll be happy when, I'll be worthy when, and it's always about like, what you don't have now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Like when I get this thing, when I get the new that car, when I get the promotion, when I lose 10 pounds when I went in, whatever the thing is, it's out of reach this is always on the other side of it. Yeah, yeah. And it never is, because there's always another thing. And so to have this like under this, this message underlined like no, you already have it, you already have what you need, to be happy to be worthy in a in a very I mean it's not a metaphorical kind of worthiness she thinks she doesn't have a soul.
Speaker 3:So that, paired with that's how you see yourself in that face. Why did you choose that is a really sort of interesting pairing that they don't linger over right. They don't, they don't spell it out for us, they don't, I don't. Nobody actually says like oh, I was worthy the whole time. You know, what I was looking for was here all the time. Like we never actually hear those words and in fact the implication is that she somehow has matured and grown as a whole along the way.
Speaker 2:but what's interesting is that it dovetails very nicely with the, the conversation in that episode about parenting, because throughout this episode and they do it like sometimes the the case works, sometimes it doesn't they did a really nice job of dovetailing the cases, case and the theme in this one because with chloe and trixie, with the almighty, the the boxer, um, the, the the doctor, you know, playing god the trainer, playing god he actually says those words yeah the, the general, who can't live up to her mother's expectations.
Speaker 2:And then the colonel oh, that's right, her mother's the general. And then god realizing, when he sees lucifer's face, how he has screwed up as a parent. Because to me, what that? Like the conversation he has with trixie, which I really appreciated he talks about how he was aiming for this one thing he wanted his kids to self-actualize. He wanted to give them free will so that they could become what they were meant clear to him. Oh, I thought I was doing the right thing and I wasn't. And that's, I feel like that informs what god says to maze, because instead of him giving her mysterious ways again, because that's how he usually speaks he actually says can't she?
Speaker 3:in a way that, like, gives her the message more directly yeah, although in his mysterious ways, right, he doesn't just say like you already have, yeah and that's.
Speaker 2:That's one of those things where I find that also like realistic, in that, even if someone decides like I need to be different, I need to change how I deal with people, they'll still be themselves right, right like he's. He like I need to be different, I need to change how I deal with people, they'll still be themselves right, right like he's. He's never going to be able to be like.
Speaker 2:I will spell it out for you, and here's a flow chart you know like that's never going to be how he does things, but that's. I really um appreciated that. And then the the conversation that chloe and trixie have at the end of the episode. In some ways I felt like we've talked before about how, like parenting on tv is not like real parenting. You know so like your, your kids, having a meltdown and you're like, why are you upset? Well, it's because of this, you know.
Speaker 2:And a kid who is acting out to the point of stealing her mother's handcuffs and handcuffing a bully to the cafeteria table, which does feel like it's within character. I mean, we met Trixie after she just kicked a mean girl in her touch-touch square Right, but at the same time, that's premeditated. Trixie after she just kicked a mean girl in her no-no-touch-touch square Right, but at the same time, that's premeditated, it's a pretty big deal what she's done. But that conversation they have where Trixie is able to say okay, so we all make mistakes, we all are in denial, we all you know not dealing with things and I know you're unhappy and I know it's because of lucifer and I'm I really don't like that and then her mom being like I don't always know what I'm doing and being able to have that conversation makes great tv, but as a mother, as the mother of an 11 year old yeah, only child girl, yeah, yeah, well it it's.
Speaker 2:You know it's like the, the sitcom trope, you know it all wraps up in 22 minutes. It's also so like the idea that an 11 year old could be that in touch with her feelings, even after talking to linda, who is like the world's best therapist and boy. Is that not appropriate for me? It's so enmeshed in her alliance lives. Anyway, even with that like the, the, how in touch Trixie is with her feelings, how much she's willing to forgive Chloe for not seeing things. Uh, how much you're right, it's, it's. It doesn't really fit.
Speaker 3:Also, just like maybe maybe my kid would notice if I was sad for a while. I mean I guess she would, but I just that that was the one she would have the emotional maturity to really see the constellations. In that same way, I mean she would either be worried that it was something she had done or she'd just be mad at me.
Speaker 2:Right, that was the thing that I found myself like going like about that, and my thought was that it was not appropriate for a parent to be talking to their child about their love life. Yeah, and so that trixie would notice that something in her mother's love life is making her unhappy is the sort of thing that, like, either shows that this kid is a little parentified or that I mean well, I mean it's, it's tv writers but yeah yeah, I think, like when I watched it the first time and even this time, when linda says that like it's actually often, like you know, mis misplaced anger or whatever that actual term she uses, because you're angry, angry at somebody else.
Speaker 3:She wouldn't have been angry at Lucifer, the anger would have been at Chloe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well cause that's safe, because it's safe to be angry at her mother, because her mother will always love her.
Speaker 3:And even the conversation then that Chloe has with her. Like I tried to protect you in my head. I'm like like that time when malcolm almost killed you both yeah, like yeah, I mean not that chloe did anything wrong, in that I'm not like I'm not saying that chloe failed it to protect. I'm just saying, like, trixie's been through some real shit. She's been through some stuff seriously traumatizing some things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, you know, and then there was the car accident, when, um, when uriel first came to town and like I just, I don't know, I I just feel like this is not when. Trixie would be mad at lucifer, and she wouldn't be mad at Lucifer at all, it would be Chloe. Chloe would be the person she would want to kick in the shins. Yeah, it was much better TV to have Trixie show up at the penthouse His hair is majestic and you know it, and you know it and have her kick him in the shins.
Speaker 2:Like that was great TV, but it didn't feel realistic well, and that that was one thing about the conversation between trixie and chloe is that it felt like the kind of conversation they would have 10 years from now. Yeah, yep, and I appreciated it as like kind of the, the sort of like childhood post-mortem, because it's too soon to have that kind of conversation, because Trixie's still very much a kid he's 11 yeah yeah, so, but the conversation between God and Trixie I thought was fantastic yeah and even even the?
Speaker 3:um sort of confusion on Trixie's face when he says I've never been a kid and she's like okay then, but that was like it was exactly what she needed because he was validating her experience.
Speaker 2:Like you know, she's like I've never been a stop being childish which, yeah, it's not my favorite thing about myself as a parent but, uh, there are times where, like, one of my kids will start with like ever since x happened, and I'll be like, oh, for goodness sakes, I'll be like, stop, he's only got a decade's worth of experience total.
Speaker 2:This is a big deal, yeah, but you know, yeah, because we forget, we forget how tough it is, or we never were kids. Yeah, I I do want to say I feel like god is the only person who has had the appropriate reaction to getting a hug from Ella. Like I love that interaction, but I also, like there was a little part of me that got a little teary-eyed when he was just like, thank you so much for your support. It has definitely been appreciated. And like there was something like you know how, inside the actor's studio, they would end with like the same, like I think seven or 10 questions, and the last one was you arrive at the pearly gates, what do you want God to say to you? And like, like that would be pretty good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, shall we move on to the our least, our, our least favorite?
Speaker 2:yes, at least yeah well, I think of the of the series series maybe it just man so dan espinoza, naked and afraid.
Speaker 2:Dan Espinosa, naked and Afraid, is one that really exposes my Achilles heel as a professional English major storyteller, lover of lore, and I think some of this has to do with the fact, with my ADHD, I take people at their word, I take things at their word, so I do not get subtext on first reading or viewing and I often it takes several iterations before I'm like oh yeah, there's the subtext.
Speaker 2:So I believed everything was actually happening while I was watching it. What's interesting is what and this may have something to do with the fact that he doesn't watch the show, but I was watching it this afternoon my husband came in and and was kind of like watching over my shoulder and even though at the at the end, when all of a sudden the music starts playing, my husband goes like what is happening right now? He did say he's like, yeah, I knew something was up, because it was so campy, it was so much campier than usual. I was like I just didn't the first time I watched it. It just did not occur to me. Time I watched it. I just it just did not occur to me, and so I know that is a big part of the reason why I didn't like it because I was suffering with Dan, me too thinking it was real even if it's, even knowing it wasn't real.
Speaker 3:Even in this rewatch, which is only my second time through, I watched it last night knowing, I mean, I've seen before. I know that this is all orchestrated by Lucifer and that Benito is not actually dead and um, you know all the things. I still was suffering with Dan because Dan thought it was real and I don't. Maybe I have greater empathy for fictional characters than the average viewer because I know this is one of, like, the fan favorites.
Speaker 2:I know people adore this episode and they think that like because you fucking shot me, daniel is like the funniest line ever and I'm like I don't, it doesn't.
Speaker 3:Chloe tried. Chloe tried to poison him. Like it it wouldn't have hurt him, but she thought that it would you know the I found it easier to watch this time.
Speaker 2:So this is only my second time viewing this episode. Same reason found it easier to watch this time in the same. For the same reason that, um, I can handle any terrible thing that happens to people, as long as it's prologue, as long as it's like background or backstory. Um, if it's happening in front of me like it's happening in real time, I'm not okay, but as long as it's backstory, I'm like well, I know they made it through, so it's. And there were a number of little hints and like one of the things that Lucifer said is you know, this wouldn't have worked on Chloe, because she's a detective, and Dan's like so am I. And I was I was realizing there are a number of things that really should have like kind of indicated that this, this isn't what you think. It is Like what can you cause? I'm not sure, oh, sure, so okay.
Speaker 2:The one that I remember thinking at the time, the first time I saw it was Benito's head in the box, and I was just like wow, they're going back to that same. Well, because Dan has already received a head in a box, so, like that, that was like okay, that's right, received a head in a box, so, like that, that was like, okay, that's. That's just odd to me that they did that, and I thought something similar about poison and antidote, because that's another, yeah, another. The one that I did not catch but was very obvious in retrospect was when he shows up at the penthouse, what Lucifer is playing is that dun dun dun, dun, dun dun. That is like very clearly like not doing anything, you know, like you know, because if he's actually playing for himself, he plays like, yeah, he doesn't play classical Classics, never, yeah, classical. So things like that.
Speaker 2:There was a little bit of over the topness about some stuff, but I still was like horrified when the bullets started flying the first time around, this time around, because I knew it wasn't real that, but that the anguish he feels at that moment, like even everything up to that, I feel like, is more forgivable than the anguish he feels at seeing people who, like he cares about in terms of maze and then are, you know, friends of his in a funk at the beginning and he's talking about, like he says, to louise before the whole thing starts.
Speaker 2:He's like you know, nothing matters, and so like nothing matters. And by going through this ordeal he realized that things do matter and he reconnects with his own sense of morality and his own sense of why he does what he does, who he truly believes he is and what he's willing to do. And, as Lucifer points out, I knew whenever you had to make a decision, you'd try to do the right thing, and so, like reconnecting him with that is very much something that he needed. Like he says, I, I needed this yeah and in.
Speaker 2:In a way, this was just like the massive version of Lucifer, like teasing him, which at the beginning, like Chloe says, like I know it hurts you that you can't tease him right now, because that's how you two show that you're friends and show your affection. It's just, it's rough.
Speaker 3:It just feels gross to me, like the whole episode just feels gross, I mean, are there, are fun and funny moments, yeah, um, like in particular when the improv crew shows up and each of them is dressed tough but like different tough right like, there's like the punk rock guy and there's like the um the the uh like 30s gangster the main guy.
Speaker 3:The main guy, the only guy who actually speaks, is like a 30s gangster, yeah, but they're all like, they're all different, they're all different kinds of they do not look like, do not match. Yeah, they're all tough, but it's like different interpretations of tough, like that is really funny and like makes a certain amount of sense, that if you just tell a group of improv people to look tough, that was just kind of fun and there were. There are some funny moments. I mean even the bike shop that turns out to be a cycle, like a blinged out bicycle shop, like well, and then the uh, the like, the the group therapy session they end up having, which is pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's definitely some funny moments in there. I've said it before, but the way my spouse put it was that it was very campy. Can kind of help blunt the pain a little bit of watching this character, who I do truly care about. Like I very much like Dan as a character, and I feel bad. They make Kevin Alejandro look like such a goober because he is such a phenomenally attractive man and he looks so gooberish. I think he does this, so his chin looks weird, I don't know. Yeah, and like to be. I think kevin alejandro had fun with this episode, which that also kind of makes it a little easier for me, but it reminds me of.
Speaker 3:There's a um, I watched all of how I met your mother and I I'm not proud of that I mean, if it makes you feel any better, I watched really like most of it, like all but the last season, so yeah, so it may have been the last season, maybe in the eighth, I don't even remember.
Speaker 2:Like by the time we got to the last season, where was I pissed off anyway for barney's bachelor Ted, since Barney so often wants things to be epic or legend wait for it, derry so for his bachelor party, ted ends up creating the worst night that Barney's ever had, because that is the only way to top all the legendary stuff he's already done. So he's very stressed out now because Barney's kind of a piece of crap. That one didn't bother me, although there were still like I get, I feel, secondhand embarrassment very strongly Me too.
Speaker 3:We have that same thing. I don't remember that episode if I saw it, but the difference too is that like probably nobody died.
Speaker 2:Um, they, they. I don't think anybody died. I don't remember there was the they.
Speaker 2:They ended up getting ralph macchio and the guy who played the bad guy in um, the karate kid yeah, the blonde guy who's like, I guess, the protagonist in that new in cobra kai, yeah, anyway, so anyway uh, they got that like and there was something about that, and somebody got beat up and I I don't remember the details because it's been such a such a time since I've seen it, but but yeah, there's, it's the, the fear of death to me like, but they were being responsive, feeling responsible for the deaths of so many other people, so many people.
Speaker 3:Benito is not his fault, but everybody else, everybody else, and the body count is really high, oh my goodness, I mean really high, like all the, all the russian guys, all the uh, all of luis's gang luis's gang and the low sexes low sexes and the and his improv and the improv so like honestly and maze so like I mean, like I still carry like major guilt from when I had to my dog put down Like I it's not funny, it's not a prank, it's just cruel.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I don't like thinking of Lucifer as cruel, because I feel the same way. That's part of the point of this show for me that I glom onto is that he's not in fact cruel, and that's part of why being the king of hell was such punishment so painful for him. Yes, because he's not in fact cruel, and so seeing him as cruel is really hard for me, but I can't. I have a hard time seeing it any other way. Yeah, and even the, because you fucking shot me, daniel, like, but you're the devil and yeah, and nothing happened.
Speaker 3:And even if you had- even if chloe had been there and you had been vulnerable as soon as she got far enough away, mm-hmm, you well, she was there, but he all of a sudden was I know. But even if he, even if he had still been vulnerable, if she just immediately, instead of running to him, if she had immediately run as far away as possible, presumably he would have recovered. Plus, he was wearing a little string which I know we haven't, we just forgot about, but yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:And we know that Daniel is mortal and was under the influence of michael, so like give a guy a fucking pass yeah, yeah or I mean even be mad at him, but like 5.4 million dollars and making him think that he has caused the death of two dozen people.
Speaker 2:I will say the $5.4 million to me feels like an indication to Dan how much Dan means to Lucifer In that, like I know, I know. But when Grasp in to make this not cruel, no, it's well. Here's the thing pranks are cruel like practical jokes are cruel.
Speaker 2:There's a book that I love, that I I listen to to fall asleep to, where there's a practical joker who's a minor character and then the main character is like, oh, I knew it couldn't have been my friend, because there's not a dram of meanness in him and you have to have you have to be mean to commit practical jokes and like not a dram of meanness. I love that, that description. So I just I cannot wrap my head around the cruelty of a practical joke. I can wrap my head around the idea of someone valuing a friendship in a way that they can't talk to each other about because they can't, and the only way they can show it is by throwing themselves into I mean meticulous planning at a ridiculous amount of money, because the the way that they they connect with each other is through being jerks to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so it's not going to be like yeah, yeah, which?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, I, I loved his, his decorations in his, in his apartment. Yeah, yeah, I also love the fact his apartment His home. Yeah, yeah, I also love the fact you only have kombucha. What if you have guests? I have some LaCroix or something. I have some LaCroix.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will never like this episode. I will never see what other people see in it. I wonder if someone who is more able to see subtext, more able to recognize being winked at earlier, earlier, would have liked it better, even even with the knowing that that dan didn't know. But I can see in the same way that people really like when they can guess who who done it in a murder mystery. If you can see, like before dan does that, it's uh like. Oh, this is a setup. There's something enjoyable about that. It's the. It's the um traumatic irony that you love. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So maybe like when lucifer says I never lie and I know this is going to go perfectly, yeah, he means for him, yeah yeah, well, and he even, he even says directly he's like it's all about appearances, yeah, and you know, there there was like.
Speaker 2:The other one that I noticed was when Dan says how do I look? And he's like pretty good actually. That was the response to each other back in season one when Lucifer got shot by Malcolm. Come to think of it, I think no well, malcolm was supposed to come shoot him and Dan came running to stop him and Lucifer had been shot by someone else but was fine, and so he's like how do I look? Pretty good actually is what Dan said to him. So there were like Easter eggs in there. So that's another thing that I'm imagining. The fandom likes is like oh, I recognize that from that and I recognize that from that. Yeah, but you know, it's just so hard to decouple the meekness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's agreed. That's how I feel about it, yeah, yeah. Well, we've been talking for a minute, we've been overthinking for a minute, so maybe can we transition to fluff. Are you ready? Absolutely, I would love to talk fluff. Actually, I don't know if this is fluff or not. I love in this episode in daniela spinoza, naked and afraid, the scene with ella when she's working on her novel about I mean, I wish they had brought that back again about the forensic scientist who talks to ghosts, who's cheerful but also has, you know, the darkness inside her. I thought that was really adorable to hear her talking about herself in that way and it really.
Speaker 3:I say adorable I mean endearing and also like poignant I, I love that moment of. Ella sort of like getting excited about yeah novel, which was a self-insert, you know, or semi-autobiobiographical, in such a pleasant way. Anyway, I love that moment yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was pretty great. I also like I really appreciated that she had actually thought through all of that the pig's blood and the ground beef For the brain matter yes, yeah, and Lucifer knew that that would happen in some way yeah anyway, yeah yeah, I, you know that's that.
Speaker 2:That also shows the amount of respect that lucifer has for for dan, because he never at any point worried that Dan would actually try to hurt her, hurt the Svetlana. I mean like there was no concern whatsoever that that was what was going to happen. No, I mean that that's. That's a huge sign of respect. Shouldn't have put him in that position. But anyway, very, very little fluff piece. But when god gets the rattle back from charlie and he's like all right, I'm gonna take my powers back, I'm sitting there thinking like it's not gonna be lights. He's god, it's just just, it's just back. No, there doesn't need to be a like, a special effect lights and a fan, yeah oh my goodness, yeah, that was that bothered, me oh, linda's response.
Speaker 3:It was pretty great what the hell just happened. Actually, I don't think I think she's, yeah, but still, yeah, the hell just happened. I don't think I think, but still, the hell was implied. Yeah, that was pretty great. You know, it's interesting too in terms of fluff, when God is in the airplane with the bad guys, with the colonel and her crew, and he's like telling baby stories about Lucifer and her crew and he's like telling like baby stories about lucifer and the rebellion and like they're like laughing and charmed, like what are they imagining? Yeah, yeah, like are they imagining a seven-year-old or like yeah, because what we overheard was just confusing Odd.
Speaker 2:Very odd. Oh, it's kind of fluff, it's kind of just a small detail. But when they're looking for they, they talk to the the surgeon and she's like, oh yeah, it was the drug I think, ysd and uh is like you know, it's very exclusive, like, oh yes, very exclusive, okay, what does it look like? And she's like small pink and and he's like, okay, so what kind of pink? And boucanvia, yeah, um, and I'm just like we should have probably known when she was able to say, like it's ballet, slipper pink.
Speaker 2:After having she only saw it once once, whereas like small and pink should have probably been all she could handle if she never actually seen it right, right, so maybe not even recognize it, yeah, when he found it. Yeah, like I think so yeah, yeah, that should have been in cater yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, that was, that was there for us, right? Yeah. So here's another piece of fluff a couple of episodes ago, when lucifer offers god a donut in the precinct and God says I prefer the ones with sprinkles.
Speaker 2:Or with cereal on it. Is that what it was? It was yes. It had like fruit loops on it. Got it.
Speaker 3:Well, they brought that back. The kind of donut he prefers is what he offered to Trixie, which I thought was I appreciated that Lovely, that's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nice little, nice little continuity, oh Dan being blown up.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I forgot that was in this episode and he remembers it. Yes, yeah, yeah, and Lucifer's like did you do that on purpose? Of course, I meant to put him back together. It's a great line, it's a great line, dennis Haysbert.
Speaker 2:Like if you'd asked me when I'd seen the first three or four seasons, like if it made any sense to cast an actor as God in this show, I would have been like, absolutely not. Actor as god in this show, I would have been like, absolutely not. I still like to this day. I'm just like it's a little odd just because of how much god would have to answer for even just within this universe. But man, they did a nice job and part of it was dennis haisberg I also want to mention I feel like I saw db woodside somewhere talking about how much it meant to him to have God played by a man who looks like him and I was thinking of that when they were asking the bartender where he was. And he's like tall, broad-shouldered, piercing eyes. That's a little like me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that was not at all lost on me. That's a little like me, yeah, yeah. No, that was not at all lost on me, which only adds to the what god has to answer for, even in this universe. I mean, we lost caleb in this universe, yeah, yeah yeah, well, like institutional racism all together in this universe.
Speaker 2:like I know you do the whole, you're really committed to the whole free will thing. But we can use a couple of miracles here and there. Just change some minds, just like just stick a finger in, massage some minds, yeah it's, yeah, it's hard man.
Speaker 3:I mean like, especially like in this show, sets it up as a parent, right, and like I want my kid to be, you know, independent and make her own decisions, but if I see someone's going to be harmed I intervene, you know. Yeah, anyway, so that's a little theological aside.
Speaker 2:I feel like that could be the subtitle of the show Lightbringers. A little theological aside. I feel like that could be the subtitle of the show Lightbringers a little theological aside.
Speaker 3:What you get when you talk with me. That's how it goes, oh my goodness. Well, I think we've overthunk it enough for one day. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we probably have overthunk it enough, so should we plug our other projects? Okay, do you want to do it? Sure, you know if you've been enjoying little theological asides from the two of us, we are launching a podcast called Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, where we overthink all kinds of pop culture, because pop culture is still culture, and shouldn't you know what's in your head?
Speaker 3:right, that's right. I think that I was thinking about it the other day. You know, like our broader culture like wants us to think that, like it just doesn't matter, there's this like hand wave. If it isn't, like you know, like high culture, if it's not it's, it's very much that white men yeah, it's very much the same as like it's just a joke, don't take it seriously exactly which is the very much gas lighting yeah, so um, this is what shapes how we behave it really is pop culture, really, really, it matters, it matters indeed indeed so we already, by the time you get this, we'll have some episodes coming out talking about Twilight, talking about Muppets from Space, talking about the Princess Bride.
Speaker 2:We've got a few others in the hopper that we're looking forward to overthinking together.
Speaker 3:Yep Audio only wherever you find podcasts. Yes, we're thinking together. Yep Audio only wherever you find podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yes, our theme song is Feral Angel Waltz by Kevin MacLeod from Incompetechcom, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 4.0 License. Visit the show notes for the URL. I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narrakeetcom. Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix. Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox, netflix nor WB. No-transcript.